Primary Donate - Hose Length

[JoeTPhilly]

For those advocating the 40 inch routed under the arm aren't you losing about a foot of length when donating? It has to travel down from the 5th port, under the arm and back out in front when in trim. It seems one would be better off with a standard 40 inch octo in that case because at least it can go over the shoulder and get close to the 40 inches.

 

[Boarderguy]

For those advocating the 40 inch routed under the arm aren't you losing about a foot of length when donating? It has to travel down from the 5th port, under the arm and back out in front when in trim. It seems one would be better off with a standard 40 inch octo in that case because at least it can go over the shoulder and get close to the 40 inches.

Let's use some thinking. The OOA diver is likely in front of or to your side slightly. Straighten your arm or raise it slightly and they get the full 40" as it rolls past your elbow and is now over your shoulder. You can also just tuck your elbow in and it will clear your arm...

 

[stuartv]

For those advocating the 40 inch routed under the arm aren't you losing about a foot of length when donating? It has to travel down from the 5th port, under the arm and back out in front when in trim. It seems one would be better off with a standard 40 inch octo in that case because at least it can go over the shoulder and get close to the 40 inches.

I agree with you. Just having it routed from the 1st stage pointing down reduces the useable length. Trying to run it over my shoulder would likely put a very bad kink in the hose, at the 1st stage.

I have been thinking about changing to an even longer one, maybe. But, I use my rig when I'm teaching OW and demoing OOA donation and it is long enough for that, so changing to a longer hose has been a low priority.

Or, here's a simple solution: Dive doubles!

 

[JoeTPhilly]

I agree with you. Just having it routed from the 1st stage pointing down reduces the useable length. Trying to run it over my shoulder would likely put a very bad kink in the hose, at the 1st stage.

I have been thinking about changing to an even longer one, maybe. But, I use my rig when I'm teaching OW and demoing OOA donation and it is long enough for that, so changing to a longer hose has been a low priority.

Or, here's a simple solution: Dive doubles!

Or just dive a 7 foot hose all the time; singles and doubles.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Or just dive a 7 foot hose all the time; singles and doubles.

I did that for a while. I found that dive boat crew who are not familiar with the 7-ft hose on a single-tank rig aren't always good at controlling that potentially unruly hose. Specifically, on a liveaboard trip where I was diving from a crowded RIB and having to hand my rig up from the water to the dive crew, the crew member grabbing it had no time to neatly stow the hose, even if he had known how, and once aboard I often found the hose snagging, trapped between or under empty tanks or others' BCs, at other divers' feet, kinked, etc. It just wasn't convenient for a crowded RIB with crew unfamiliar with a long-hose setup. I eventually switched to using the streamlined OW configuration (40-in hose) for trips like that. For the sake of consistency of muscle memory I would prefer to use a 7-ft hose for both my single-tank and double-tank diving, but I relented to practicality.

 

[stuartv]

I think too much is made of "muscle memory". Yes, it is a thing and it is good to develop. What is not good is behaving as if there is only one "memory" you can develop.

You can have muscle memory for diving with a 7' hose and also muscle memory for diving other configurations.

I think being flexible/adaptable in scuba - as in everything in life - is a good thing. Being able to dive a single tank rig with a 40" "long" hose, a doubles rig with a 7' hose, and a sidemount rig - all, competently - is good. Telling yourself "I always and only dive with a 7' primary hose, for muscle memory" is doing yourself a disservice.

Sidemount divers learn how to dive with a 7' hose and donate that from their mouth, and also how to dive with a short hose in their mouth and donate their 7' hose that is clipped off to a chest D-ring. Is sidemount inherently unsafe because they develop 2 muscle memories for OOA situations, instead of just one?

Learn multiple ways to do things. Get good at them all.

 

[James79]

I agree with you. Just having it routed from the 1st stage pointing down reduces the useable length. Trying to run it over my shoulder would likely put a very bad kink in the hose, at the 1st stage.

I have been thinking about changing to an even longer one, maybe. But, I use my rig when I'm teaching OW and demoing OOA donation and it is long enough for that, so changing to a longer hose has been a low priority.

Or, here's a simple solution: Dive doubles!

I prefer a 48 inch hose, but either way I find that the routing (under my arm or over my arm) makes negligible difference in the useful length when deployed (granted I've never used it in anger, only practicing air share).

Respectfully,

James

 

[steinbil]

How is a 7 ft hose ever more streamlined than a 40" hose that is running from a bottom LP port on a 1st down, down, angled slightly to the diver's right, and then looping up, either to the diver's mouth or to an octo holder on the right shoulder strap? (A: It is not, ever.) A 7 ft hose offers advantages, but being more streamlined than a properly setup rig with a 40" hose is not one of them.

If the picture in the quote below is what you're referring to, then I agree it's not less streamlined. I would also argue that it isn't more streamlined than a 7ft hose routed properly. With hoses routed that close to the body streamlining is negligible. However, from the photo below I can imagine other drawbacks, like interference with the right shoulder D-ring. It also looks less comfortable to me - the way the longhose sits behind your neck carries the weight of the hose, making it very comfortable in the mouth. Also when clipped off to the chest D-ring, I'm curious how streamlined the 40" hose will be when it makes a looser loop under the arm.

So, I guess I would rephrase my statement as: 7ft longhose is better or equal in terms of streamlining to any other config.

No, you don't want to get those two hoses trapped and twisted around each other. Don't do it. Instead you want a ~22" hose going over your shoulder. Add a 90 degree adapter to make it more comfortable. This setup is called the streamlined open water setup. In an air share you will donate your primary and switch to your necklaced second.

View attachment 475221

Imagine a diver surprising you, coming from your left. (because you are all telling me that this often happens by surprise, so you don't get to prepare or know when your reg will be yanked, or in which direction) When they pull that reg to them (on your left), and the hose goes under your chin, how's that "slide over your head" part going to work?

I really don't see this happening. Have you tried it? When the primary on a 7ft longhose is in my mouth, the hose is snug around my neck and across my chest. It would be very hard for someone on my left to pull reg towards them without either moving to my front or pulling it over my head. Even if they pull it under my chin, it wouldn't reach them. They would literally need to have their face under my chin to breathe from it. Still if someone were to successfully pull it under my chin and hold it there, I could just spin towards them to solve it. I have also not tried to simulate this situation, so I might be wrong, but instinctually I don't see this being a problem. Maybe I'll ask a buddy to try pulling it from my mouth from my left to test it...

He didn't say he wouldn't help someone if he saw them in trouble. He was saying that he would just avoid being anywhere around them in the first place. I.e. not dive from boats with those kind of divers, or, if doing so, splash and then go the other way. Surely you don't think everyone diving from the same boat is morally obligated to all stay together during the dive, so that anyone in the group could render assistance to anyone else in the group if needed?

Fair enough. That might have been what he meant, in which case what I wrote does not apply to him. I have seen similar sentiments being voiced on ScubaBoard, though, so I stand by what I said for whoever might have this philosophy.

I teach all my tech students: Your primary 2nd stage should ALWAYS be one of two places: In your mouth, or clipped off to your right chest D-ring. That is from the time you take the reg out of your bag to assemble it with your rig, until you take the reg off your rig.

If you're going to use a 7' hose and hog loop it, you should really develop the muscle memory for clipping it off whenever you take it out of your mouth, so you can do it quickly and easily, with one hand.

100% agreed on both counts.

 

[admikar]

Imagine a diver surprising you, coming from your left. (because you are all telling me that this often happens by surprise, so you don't get to prepare or know when your reg will be yanked, or in which direction) When they pull that reg to them (on your left), and the hose goes under your chin, how's that "slide over your head" part going to work?

If we are going to strawman arguments, how would you deal with diver coming above your left shoulder, pulling your reg left and up and pinning your secondary under your chin?

 

[Nemrod]

For those advocating the 40 inch routed under the arm aren't you losing about a foot of length when donating? It has to travel down from the 5th port, under the arm and back out in front when in trim. It seems one would be better off with a standard 40 inch octo in that case because at least it can go over the shoulder and get close to the 40 inches.

No, I am not loosing a foot of length for a 40 inch hose under my arm and still primary donate. Not all regulators are turret type and use or even have a fifth port. My Mark 17 Evo and Mark 2 Evo, Mark V and Core Supreme and Titan first stages do not have a fifth port and the hoses come off to the side which I prefer. I also have two Mark 10s and two Mark 20/25s with a fifth port and I do not use the fifth port with the either for single tank diving. I run the turret up and the hoses on the side ports. I could also run the turret straight down and still use the side ports. I only use the fifth port for manifolded doubles and IDs and a few other configurations.

This is a Mark 20 with turret up and in this case a 60 inches primary but if it were a 40 inches primary nothing would change other than the addition of an angle swivel to the primary.



I put the secondary 22 inches hose where the yellow is shown here and the primary 40/60 inches hose behind where the blue hoses is shown, whichever hoses is being used the turret will swivel to accommodate:



Or for a Mark 17 Evo or Core, the primary donate long hose goes where the octo yellow hose is shown, primary aft and necklaced secondary goes where the blue hose is:



Mark 2 Evo with 40 inches primary donate:

And for a Mark 2 Evo or Titan or similar the primary donate hose goes pointing down where the yellow octo is shown here and the secondary necklaced regulator on a 22 inches hoses goes upward and over my shoulder as shown here where the blue hose is:





Edit to add, those images were for a conventional octopus/safe second donate, I usually run 40/60 inches primary donate with a necklaced secondary on a 22/24 inches hose over my shoulder thus the need to reverse the primary and secondary hoses.