Primary Donate - Hose Length

[Brett Hatch]

Wow thanks for the response everyone! I wasn't expecting so much so quickly!

@Oldmanmatt What you said about the panicked diver grabbing the reg from your mouth is one of the primary reasons why I'm leaning towards a primary donate setup. I've luckily never had to do it outside of training yet but everyone I've spoken to who has, almost always says that the OOA diver instinctively goes for the one you're breathing from. That and the fact that the second is usually handing around your neck so it's very quick and easy to swap makes me feel like primary donate is a great configuration for everyone.

A few of you said you've had to donate air a few times, I'm curious to know how many dives you've done or how often you've had to do it?

And those of you that opt for a longer hose, how do you route it to keep things comfortable and avoid getting tangled in hose?

I'm still a relatively new diver and can only see myself doing OW stuff for the foreseeable future so in an OOA situation I imagine we'd stick to training and ascend straight away so I can't really see the benefit of a longer hose than the standard octopus hose but hey, that's why I'm here

I've never been in an OOA situation, neither have my buddies, and I don't intend to do so any time soon. The times where I have shared air have been voluntary and calm, either as an exercise, or to extend the dive when one buddy is lower on gas than the other. I don't keep a dive log, but I've done around 200 dives in 5 years.

The way I route the long hose is: the hose comes out of the 1st stage reg at a low angle, about 15 degrees to my right side from vertical. It goes down to my right hip, loops around a sheathed pair of EMT shears on the waistband, and to the left across my belly. It then goes up to my left shoulder, around the back of my neck, and straight into the 2nd stage reg in my mouth. Some folks make different choices at the hip, like using the battery canister of a cabled light, or tucking the excess hose under their waistband.

A 60" primary hose also goes down to the right side to the ribs, across the chest to the left shoulder, and around the back of the neck into the 2nd stage.

A 40" primary hose goes down to under the right armpit, then up to the right cheek, and connects to the 2nd stage with a swivel.

 

[steinbil]

What you said about the panicked diver grabbing the reg from your mouth is one of the primary reasons why I'm leaning towards a primary donate setup. I've luckily never had to do it outside of training yet but everyone I've spoken to who has, almost always says that the OOA diver instinctively goes for the one you're breathing from. That and the fact that the second is usually handing around your neck so it's very quick and easy to swap makes me feel like primary donate is a great configuration for everyone.

Exactly. The fact that there's a backup reg for you right under your chin in case anything happens to your primary is a great comfort. You never have to sweep to find your reg. This is a benefit that you have on every single dive regardless of environment. If you have to donate it's also very nice to know OOA diver gets a working ref with good gas and you get some space.

A few of you said you've had to donate air a few times, I'm curious to know how many dives you've done or how often you've had to do it?

I have less than 100 dives and have witnessed it once. Never had to donate outside of training yet. Glad to know I'm ready for it.

And those of you that opt for a longer hose, how do you route it to keep things comfortable and avoid getting tangled in hose?

I find the 7ft long hose more streamlined than any other configuration. It goes down under my right arm, across my chest and behind my neck. Any excess hose is securely tucked in my belt or under canister. Hose is always very close to my body, never in the way, can't snag on anything, super comfortable. If somebody takes my reg it will slide over my head and give them some space, to give them extra space, deploy the rest of the hose tucked in your belt/canister.

 

[Oldmanmatt]

So, the next time a panicked diver whom you don't see coming grabs the reg out of your mouth, you'd prefer that reg to be on a hose that is wrapped around your neck?

Well, yes, actually. As long as it is tucked under your arm. The “panicked diver grabs reg and aggressively swims away” scenario has been drilled and seen in practice for at least two decades. The worst that has happened is the donor being “spun around “. Like many things in diving, we are discussing the “least worst” practice because there will always be some sort of drawback.
This said and after 20 years of DIR style diving for OW and Tech, and after more than 30 years of Commercial and recreational diving in total; I’m switching to Side mount over the coming winter…

 

[happy-diver]

I would hope that in 99% of my dives (if not more), I wouldn't need to use my secondary.. so 99% of the time (or more), isn't all that extra hose length just annoying?

I love you man, my sentiments exactly!

When I dive a backplate, single or twin manifolded tanks in what is my version of a Hogarthian rig

I use the shortest hose permitting head full head movement without excess hose slopping around
No 7ft hinderance

and also use a triple console with computer clipped to my R shoulder dring which I can clearly see
No spg on the hip

And stay completely away from those divers that may require my services, when running out of air
because they couldn't see their spg on their hip

Yeah we are on the ball here all the rest is a cult

 

[admikar]

So, the next time a panicked diver whom you don't see coming grabs the reg out of your mouth, you'd prefer that reg to be on a hose that is wrapped around your neck?

Not sure why are you wording it like this, when I know that you know how the hose is routed. It's not a hanging rope. If OOA diver pulls my reg from my mouth, chances are that hose will just slide over my head. Even if it doesn't, I just have to look down and it will go. And I never tuck it under the canister, always tuck it under waist belt, so it will slide on its own when pulled.
I prefer 7ft for a freedom of movement. I have donated few times, only once it was true OOA, most times was as a precaution to LOA diver. We finished following the bottom up instead of going straight up.

 

[rongoodman]

For open water diving I find the 60" hose to be ideal. No need to tuck the excess away, but the mechanics of donating remain the same.

 

[Superlyte27]

For what you are doing, you use the same hose lengths as you would for secondary donate.

I.e. around a 22" hose and a 40" hose.

The only difference in setup is, if you are doing primary donate, you want a 110 degree angle adapter on the reg on the long hose, and no angle adapter on the reg on the short hose.

For secondary donate, I prefer no angle adapter on the long hose reg, and a swivel adapter on the short hose reg. If the long hose reg is going to live in an octo holder or similar, just waiting to be donated, having no angle adapter allows it to hang/stow more neatly.

Swivel adapter:

Cave Adventurers - Swivel - Marianna, Florida USA - Never Undersold!

Swivel

www.caveadventurers.com

Personally, when I first started diving, I read a lot on SB and became convinced to use primary donate on my single tank reg set.

Now, I teach scuba (OW to Tech) and I have gone back to what they taught in my original OW class - short hose reg in my mouth. Long hose reg attached to my chest and ready to donate.

Primary donate makes sense for technical diving. I really don't see any benefit to it in a recreational sport diving single tank situation.

I DO like having my short hose reg on a bungee necklace, though, so it's always easy to find after taking it out for any reason.

The benefit is that in every single out of air emergency I saw as a boat captain in the keys, the ooa diver TOOK (didn’t ask, didn’t signal, didn’t communicate, TOOK) the reg out of the donating diver’s mouth. And why was that? Because the panicking diver thinks he’s about to die. And he KNOWS that the reg you are breathing off of works.

So, the benefit? Time, Speed and having a panicking diver 40” away from me and controllable instead of 28” and not at arms length

 

[inquis]

I like a 5 ft for rec diving in a wetsuit. No tucking needed and no dangling. The 7 ft routing better avoids my drysuit inflator.

 

[steinbil]

And stay completely away from those divers that may require my services, when running out of air
because they couldn't see their spg on their hip

People can dive in the way they want and with the gear they want, but I really have no respect for this sentiment. Just like sailors help other sailors out at sea, in my opinion, scuba divers should help out other scuba divers in need of assistance. And I'm not even just talking about life-or-death situations. Because it is the right thing to do, a code of honor if you will. Especially when you're talking about leaving OOA divers on the bottom, possibly to die, when you could have saved them. I don't understand this point of view, and don't think I ever will. I don't know if it's just talking tough or if it's a sincere viewpoint, but to me it reeks of cowardice and/or misanthropy.

To be clear, I'm not saying anyone should sacrifice their life or health to save someone underwater, or that you should be responsible for another diver's safety, but that offering whatever assistance you possibly can, in the safest way possible, is the only right thing to do.

 

[RyanT]

do rec diving with a 84" foot longhose primary and a necklaced shorthose secondary. I do not find the extra length to have any downside, and the hose routes very nicely and cleanly. The few times I've donated it, the extra length has been very helpful. I also tried the standard 40" primay + octo setup, and the 40" primary on a swivel + short necklaced secondary setup. For both of them, I did not find that the hoses routed well, and while there was enough length to do a vertical ascent safely, there was not enough length to donate comfortably for any horizontal distance.

This has also been my experience. As a plus for me, the muscle memory is there when I switch between tech and rec dives.