Practicing CESA & ditch and don?

[dumpsterDiver]

Entanglement is always the reason given for doing a ditch and don, yet I can't think of any situation where ditching your gear would improve an entanglement situation.

Do you ever dive around wrecks with multiple fishing lines and other hazards? Trying to cut line away from behind your head, could easily result in regulator/knife "issues". Simply poping off the tank, spinning around and untangling the line is simple if you have a BC that opens easily. I can do it alone in less than 60 seconds.

 

[Soggy]

Do you ever dive around wrecks with multiple fishing lines and other hazards?

In fact, that's about all I dive around (look at where I'm from before you ask silly questions). Usually in deep water...with doubles, deco bottles, and now we often have scooters. My first priority is the situational awareness to not get myself or my other teammates entangled. Second, if I do get entangled (I've had a couple minor incidents), my buddies usually know it before I do and have sometimes freed me before I was actually "entangled." Third, if I do get entangled and my buddy decided to run away and ignore me, there are much better ways of getting yourself out of an entanglement than making it worse by removing all your gear (which, incidentally, is also my weighting system!). I carry scissors, not a knife, because they work cut line of all sorts much better.

 

[Thalassamania]

If you say so....If I was tangled in fish net, the *last* thing I would do would be wiggle around getting out of my gear.

Agreed, it's the last thing you do to keep it from being the very last thing that you do.

Yeah, we did that in my OW class, too. It was fun, I guess. I'm not a big fan of the wax on wax off approach to diving, though (nor was I a fan of it in Martial Arts).

I'm sure that there are other ways to practice and perfect things, that happens to be mine, but please do not confuse it with the militarist/callisthenic approach often used in both scuba and martial arts, for me its more Aikido and less Karate.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

Here's a real-life scenario that happened to me recently, and I beleive it illustrates the need to practice the types of skills mentioned:

Diving in a local lake with vis varying from 1 - 3 feet. Right at 100' down my dive buddy lost his weight belt. He just able to hook the belt with one ankle just long enough to grab a hold of me. Due to suit compression, he was still fairly neutral, but would have become very buoyant during ascent (cold water, dry suit).

At that point we decided to 'thumb' the dive and ascend. As I started to ascend I hit a tree branch. Something (in addition to my buddy) grabbed a hold of my gear and I wasn't moving. My buddy was able to shake me loose as I was going through entanglement procedures in my head. Never did figure out if it was the tree branch or the monofilament that always hangs off of tree branches that was holding me.

As I mentioned the vis was low already, and when I hit the branch I knocked a ton of silt off of it, and the vis went to 0.

Someone gave the pat answer, "I just call my buddy." Well, as you can see, my buddy was already as close as can be, and was able to shake me loose, but I don't want to count on him being able to do that. If he hadn't been able to, I could have removed my gear, pulled the WI pouches out, taken my buddies octo, and we could have continued our controlled ascent.

Someone mentioned cutting it loose without removing it. In a no-vis situation with my buddy hanging on to my gear, I think whipping out a knife would have been a bad idea.

 

[matt_unique]

If you say so....If I was tangled in fish net, the *last* thing I would do would be wiggle around getting out of my gear.....

This is one of the reasons I prefer the deluxe harness to the hog. In a hog you would indeed need to wiggle to get out. With a deluxe you unclip, rotate right with zero wiggle with your arm still in your rig, then look at the problem at hand. My lead is in weight pouches too.

--Matt

PS I never practice CESA and every now and then don/doff underwater.

 

[Soggy]

This is one of the reasons I prefer the deluxe harness to the hog. In a hog you would indeed need to wiggle to get out.

Your reason for preferring the deluxe harness is my reason for preferring the one piece. I don't want it coming off. Different philosophies sometimes yield different choices.

 

[Thalassamania]

My first priority is the situational awareness to not get myself or my other teammates entangled.

But of course.

Second, if I do get entangled (I've had a couple minor incidents), my buddies usually know it before I do and have sometimes freed me before I was actually "entangled."

Yes.

Third, if I do get entangled and my buddy decided to run away and ignore me, there are much better ways of getting yourself out of an entanglement than making it worse by removing all your gear (which, incidentally, is also my weighting system!).

It’s the weighting system that potentially seals your doom. I still have the option to take off my tank at this stage. We all carry shears, and a knife, and a line cutter, because each has its place.

 

[Soggy]

It’s the weighting system that potentially seals your doom. I still have the option to take off my tank at this stage. We all carry shears, and a knife, and a line cutter, because each has its place.

Not much one can do about it if you choose to dive double steels. They *are* the weighting system. I suppose I could change to an aluminum plate and add 4 lbs to a weight belt, but that's not going to do much good if I become separated from my rig.

 

[Nemrod]

"That last one is difficult to do, considering that I dive with a BP/W and a steel tank...that is 10 lbs negative at the start of the dive."

Well, that is what you dive with, do you actually need that much weight, and, explain again why you cannot inflate either your drysuit or your wing? or your safety sausage and for the life of me when I was an ocean lifeguard I swear we had to carry 10 pounds a half mile, maybe it was just five. You cannot swim (ten) pounds up? Why do you need to be 10 pounds negative? Why not only three pounds? Why so heavy? Sounds like if your stuck on the bottom with an overweight rig, doff the rig, drop the belt, ascend to the surface, no buddy(?), well, buddy (pony) bottle, side slung, unclip blow and go. I am just guessing here but I never would rig myself so heavy I could not swim up but that is just me, I guess hardhat divers cannot swim up, oh well.


Soggy, MengTze, everybody naturally applies their situation to geneal discussions, your a cave diver so this or your a deep wreck diver so your buddy this and whatever buddy or that, all I can says is that counting on a buddy is very likely someday to leave you wishing for more than a pair of scissors. Buddies don't come in a box with a 100% guarantee or money back or your life back.

If you don't see the need to practice basic watermanship skills then don't, don't practice all that DIR stuff like so called helicopter turns and air sharing S drills or any of that, don't practice anything, your never going to need that---or will you? N

 

[Soggy]

If you don't see the need to practice basic watermanship skills then don't, don't practice all that DIR stuff like s called helicopter turns and air sharing S drills or any of that, don't practice anything, your never going to need that---or will you? N

I use "that DIR stuff" on every single dive. That backup kick that people like to pick on, can prevent an otherwise unavoidable entanglement. Can't say I've ever needed to do a CESA from 150 ft or take off all my gear and retrieve it. I practice the skills that count.