Pony bottle/alternate air

[citykid]

Fair enough Don.

And thanks to all who offered up their set ups. A lot of great info!

 

[Nemrod]

MikeF, like you mention, in shallow, clear water diving the Rule of Thirds is overly resrtrictive. Where do you cross the line?--that is to be answered by the individual.

All the training, all the equipment, all the planning will do a diver no good at all if he/she lacks the discipline to implement what they know and use what they have within reasonable limits.

N

 

[MikeFerrara]

MikeF, like you mention, in shallow, clear water diving the Rule of Thirds is overly resrtrictive. Where do you cross the line?--that is to be answered by the individual.


N

There's no line to cross. I always apply the intent of the rule of thirds which is to have twice the gas needed to return to the surface (enough for two people).

On a dive where I can ascend anyplace, I need enough gas for two people to ascend on.

On a dive where I would like to get back to the entry point but don't really have to, after backing out the ascent gas, I can devide the remaining usable gas into halves for an out and back.

On any dive where I must get back to the entry point, it's the rule of thirds. I still back out the ascent gas first and apply thirds to the usable portion.

In all cases I have at least double the gas I need to get to the surface. These are minimums of course and you can always reserve more if you think it's a good idea for the dive. The minimums assume that you won't use more gas coming than you did going and that isn't always true. Anything that impedes travel or degrades the composure of the divers can cause the return trip to require more gas.

While we're on the subject, I'll touch on something else related to buddy diving. Gas Matching....If divers are using different size tanks, that needs to be taken into account. The diver with the bigger tank limits themselves to the same usable volume as the diver with the smaller tank. The idea is for either diver to have enough gas to get both divers back from the furthest point in the dive.

We can talk about the various ways to get redundancy until we're blue in the face but it's all for nothing and just a shot in the dark if divers haven't learned this stuff.

 

[citykid]

Yeah, but the problem is that many divers forgot many lessons first taught. I see very care free attitudes most of the time on the water and even on this site. Now diving is supposed to be fun, and not frightening. But it can be quite dangerous to someone who pays attention, forget about someone who blows off saftey procedures and practices. Because of this type of person I began to see DIR diver's point of view.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Yeah, but the problem is that many divers forgot many lessons first taught.

Unfortunately, the gas management that I outlined above isn't often taught in recreational classes. It's rarely taught in entry level courses and some recreational agencies never get around to it at all. You can go all the way to instructor without ever seeing it. It's not a matter of forgeting. Scubaboard has taught gas management to more recreational divers than any agency on the face of the planet.

 

[String]

Does slinging a pony or carrying a pony on your back affect your balance in any way?

With a BCD pony on my back didnt affect me in the slightest.

With my wing back mounted pony was horrible, even with counter weights it pulled me everywhere.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Nemrod]

The Rule of Thirds--which I also always implement (at least the intent of)-- has been around forever. I vividly recall the instructor going on and on about it and me and my buddy just wanted to get into the pool when I took my first scuba class in 1966. He was a LA County, Naui, UDT sort. It is nothing new but it is true--they don't teach this stuff anymore. I also recall this being a part of the Y program my wife went through in 1979 but that was still at least a six week class. They have to drop out something to get a scuba class down to one afternoon you know!

It is a true statment that for a new diver to run out and purchase a pony rig isn't solving the basic problem that he simply has no idea what he is doing. It is not his fault, there just is no scuba training anymore. It is not the equipment that is the problem.

Diving is not a high death rate sport. I do know of some who lost their life and I know of two who are paralyzed from a deco hit, one spear fishing and doing deep bounces and the other about ten or so years ago doing something along the lines of what is commonly practiced in tech diving. Whenever you obligate yourself to deco your now in a serious situation and you better know what your doing or you may wind up with no feeling below the neck.
N

 

[hugedodge2000]

If you know what your doing you don't need auxillary air sources. Keep an eye on your gauges!!

 

[DandyDon]

If you know what your doing you don't need auxillary air sources. Keep an eye on your gauges!!

[hijack]:11: OMG, please review the threads before posting, thank you. [/hijack]

If you don't have a reg failure, if your insta-buddies are always there for you, if you don't have an OOA buddy over breathing your gas when you share, if nothing else goes wrong, blah blah blah...

Do you see that question asked anywhere in the original post...

To the ones who dive with these. What is your set up?
Another seperate 1st & 2nd stage? Or bottle with mouth piece connected.
Would the 2nd stage be positioned not near your octo (only for you, not buddy's)?
Do you turn on the air before you enter the water? Every time?
What size bottle?

Thanks all.

We almost had this thread shut down over that line of posting, okay...? :shakehead

 

[String]

As for thirds, its mandatory to teach here in the first level course.

(although its overkill for basic OW diving).