Pony bottle/alternate air

[bentex]

Did someone forget their meds today?? :shakehead

 

[bentex]

Did anyone notice that the op has not been back since the first post? I hope the negativity and trolling did'nt run him off.


I am diving a Zeagle BC and notice that they sell pony bottle straps specifically for their BC's. If I do get a pony I want to try this set up first. Have any of you tried their straps? How do these compare to a quick release?

 

[letterboy]

Did anyone notice that the op has not been back since the first post? I hope the negativity and trolling did'nt run him off.


I am diving a Zeagle BC and notice that they sell pony bottle straps specifically for their BC's. If I do get a pony I want to try this set up first. Have any of you tried their straps? How do these compare to a quick release?

Are you trying to attach it to your tank straps?

 

[bentex]

Are you trying to attach it to your tank straps?

Either the tank straps or my BC straps on the back.

 

[letterboy]

I haven't used a tank mount, I have seen several of my DB's use this http://www.reefscuba.com/bracket.htm

I have also seen the Dive shop owners use basically a piece of Al bent into a U shape and some hose clamps to hold the pony bottle onto the bracket and then it just slides down between the tank and the straps. Holds effectively and is about half the price of the pony tamer.

Personally I sling the pony bottle to make it easier to hand off to another OOA diver or to ditch if needed.

 

[MikeFerrara]

So if I called it a stage bottle you would be ok with it? :shakehead

Weren't you done with this thread?

A decompression bottle is distinctly different from a pony bottle. A decompression bottle isn't a backup. It's a primary gas for a specific portion of the dive. Since a decompression bottle normally uses a single output valve (no redundancy) we always have a backup for it. If we use a single decompression gas, we reserve sufficient backgas such that we can get through decompression if we lose the decompression gas. The back gas is where we have our redundancy.

likewise, a stage bottle isn't a backup but rather the main gas for a specific portion of the dive. Again, since it usually has a single output valve, we have a backup for it. In general terms first we use the stage bottle first and reserve the backup in our back tanks where we have redundancy.

In the case of both, we carry them where we can see them, they always have an SPG and we keep them pressurized but turned off until it's time to use them. Those are all meassures to prevent loss or so that we know if we are losing gas.

By contrast, a pony bottle is usually a single tank with a single output valve but it's reserved as the backup. You can see that the whole concept is pretty much backwards from that of a decompression or stage bottle which is backed up. We know that our stages and decompression bottles are the most likely to be damaged or lost and have no redundancy so we have a backup for them.

 

[letterboy]

A decompression bottle is distinctly different from a pony bottle. A decompression bottle isn't a backup. It's a primary gas for a specific portion of the dive. Since a decompression bottle normally uses a single output valve (no redundancy) we always have a backup for it. If we use a single decompression gas, we reserve sufficient backgas such that we can get through decompression if we lose the decompression gas. The back gas is where we have our redundancy.

likewise, a stage bottle isn't a backup but rather the main gas for a specific portion of the dive. Again, since it usually has a single output valve, we have a backup for it. In general terms first we use the stage bottle first and reserve the backup in our back tanks where we have redundancy.

In the case of both, we carry them where we can see them, they always have an SPG and we keep them pressurized but turned off until it's time to use them. Those are all meassures to prevent loss or so that we know if we are losing gas.

By contrast, a pony bottle is usually a single tank with a single output valve but it's reserved as the backup. You can see that the whole concept is pretty much backwards from that of a decompression or stage bottle which is backed up. We know that our stages and decompression bottles are the most likely to be damaged or lost and have no redundancy so we have a backup for them.

I see your point, thank you for wording in a way that is not with a "I am better then you attitude"

The only thing I don't understand is the bold portion.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I haven't used a tank mount, I have seen several of my DB's use this http://www.reefscuba.com/bracket.htm

I have also seen the Dive shop owners use basically a piece of Al bent into a U shape and some hose clamps to hold the pony bottle onto the bracket and then it just slides down between the tank and the straps. Holds effectively and is about half the price of the pony tamer.

Personally I sling the pony bottle to make it easier to hand off to another OOA diver or to ditch if needed.

We have mounted argon bottles to our back tanks and there are lots of sinple ways to do it that don't cost anything. One way we've done it is to hose clamp a piece of weight belt webbing to the argon bottle and simply run a cam-band through it.

The problem I see with backmounting a pony bottle is being able to see it and reach the valve. Also many divers don't have an SPG on a pony bottle. If the bottle is on, you can't see it and don't have an SPG to monitor, I can't, for the life of me, figure out what would lead you to believe that there will still be any gas in the bottle when you need it. I don't see that as a very reliable backup.

 

[DandyDon]

I have also seen the Dive shop owners use basically a piece of Al bent into a U shape and some hose clamps to hold the pony bottle onto the bracket and then it just slides down between the tank and the straps. Holds effectively and is about half the price of the pony tamer.

That's the piece of junk that got me in trouble, as I could not see the first stage problem, nor reach the valve. :blush: I let this happen to me in 2004 even after assisting another diver with one once who had his turned off and couldn't turn it on. Hate those things. My home buddy has one, still new and in the package, but we won't use it or Ebay is, as I think they're dangerous.

Personally I sling the pony bottle to make it easier to hand off to another OOA diver or to ditch if needed.

And you can see it! That's why I sling mine now, so I can see the valve & first stage, as well as reach the valve easily.

 

[MikeFerrara]

The only thing I don't understand is the bold portion.

There are a couple of reasons that I say the stage/decompression bottle are more likely to be lost.

The biggest reason is just that they only have a single output valve and a single reg. Especially in cold water, where free flows aren't uncommon, there's just always the chance that the single valve/reg will be what fails. Of course cold water isn't the only thing that causes free flows. There are purly mechanical failures that can cause air to leak out or water to leak in...but depth, even in warm water, results in a much greater demand through the reg...at 33 ft double...66, triple...99 quadruple ect. A reg can freeze even in warm water simply due to the cooling effect of a greater amount of gas expanding within it at depth. The combination of cold and depth is, of course, the worst. I know some divers get to dive warm water but most of the world has some pretty cold water.

Other reasons include the fact that they are clipped on and therefor ditcheable. Something that's ditchable, might get ditched. Also, sometimes (mostly in caves) we actually leave them to be picked up when we need them. They might get dropped (staged) on the way in or even on a previous setup dive. We hope that it's still there and that it works when we get to it but it might not.