Polish cave diver critical - Marcilhac-sur-Célé, France

[Julius SCHMIDT]

Not being pestered and an introduction of a 5 min no talking rule whilst gearing up would be helpful
Not including any prebreathe if that's what you do

 

[Hiszpan]

An ADV is an automatic diluent valve which is already mentioned here. It is more or less a sort of second stage that opens if the counterlungs are emtpy (vacuum), so the diver can breathe. The adv will let diluent in the lungs if you go down. Extra diluent in the lungs can also be done with a mav (manual add valve). In a rebreather course is also teached that you dive with adv, so you can only use the mav.
I read about a bailout with 10/70 trimix, so a real hypoxic mix. But even that in a loop at 350-450m in the Ressel (that is the distance you can reach in 5-7 minutes) means a depth of 20-47m, and at 20m depth, the mix is breathable if this is also the diluent. But you have to add oxygen to get the 'normal' PO2 of 0.7 (or maybe the 1.1-1.3 that is more used).
Hypoxic is possible if the oxygen is closed. But then you did not check your handset and/or hud.

If the diver dives a 10/70 mix, this means he must have a mod3/full trimix ccr card. That he started ccr diving 1 year ago does not say he cannot have done this courses. He also had done oc cave dives.

For me, the most worrying part is that his ccr has been repaired several times. Is that a design flaw? But the 'at least 10 events like this', where is that found?
I don't dive a treb, but dive a sidemount mccr, a Sidekick and know the divesite quite well.

According to this news outlet quoting a mayor of Marcilhac-sur-Cele Robert was found in less than 10 meters depth:

Tragedia we Francji, nie żyje doświadczony polski nurek

 

[Germie]

Then he did not pass the 2nd T of the Ressel and took the left tunnel on the first T. At the second T it is about 20m deep and this is 350m-360m in the cave.
The max depth is 9-10m till the first T at 180m. If you go to the left, the next 120-150m is also max 10m deep. Then it goes to about 20m where the 2nd T is found. Normally you go left then, further in the cave, at about 23m, most people drop their ean50. A short horizontal passage at 30m is found. Then you go to the big chamber, a really beautifull part of the cave. At about 450m you are at 'Puits 4', that is completely at the bottom 47m. The cave widens then and you get a turn of about 90 degrees to the left. The line is then at about 47-48m and the bottom is a little bit deeper. A lot of OC divers swimming can reach about 550m in the cave an put their computer at the bottom that is there a small part 53m and then turn.
So he must been found then between the first and second T. That is max 10m. The first T to the right is a little bit deeper and both tunnels come together at the second T.

 

[RedSix]

An article of his former CCR instructor:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=pl&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fdivers24.pl%2F44750-wypadek-nurkowy-dlaczego-musial-sie-wydarzyc%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR1Qjjj8u3k8upqrQzTmGIoTeswn0QcHHUK3U816qvB0irrFmQWFkkIDzyM

 

[Vicko]

Holy #### he was literally in the group of those 3 divers I mentioned who passed out on the boat in front of me. The dive in question was my profile picture, b-17 wreck at 70 meters.

 

[Hiszpan]

An article of his former CCR instructor:

Google Translate

Let this epitaph conclude this sad event and be a warning to all of those who would want to cut corners in our training.

I just wanted to add that the instructor who posted this summary and who was the one issuing Robert’s first CCR qualification has copied few screenshots of:

- name of the instructor and the facility (extracted from a PADI website) who issued Tec CCR qualifications to Robert for 40, 60 and 100 meters respectively. Those were issued 3-Sep-2020, about two weeks after Robert obtained his first basic CCR qualification.

- a FB discussion from February 2021 where Robert commented a picture with supposedly incorrectly laid cave line with a jump. The instructor corrected Robert and pointed out that the line is actually laid correctly and was surprised to see Robert making such a basic erroneous statement. The instructor also warned him to not exceed the CCR training he has obtained, pointing out to Robert’s FB posts informing about deeper-than-qualification CCR dives in open and overhead environment. Robert’s reply to those comments were not favorable.

 

[Germie]

I read in other comments on fb that he was not found in the cave, but only at 7m depth. That means the entrance. So the 5-7 minutes divetime I read somewhere are then strange.
If the accident was not medical and avoidable, we can only learn what is already written: follow a strict checklist, check your handset, check the flow of gasses before a dive, etc.
And at the start of a dive (and of course always during the dive), expecially when you dive mCCR and a hypoxic diluent: know your PO2. In every ccr course is teached: always know your PO2.

It is a sad story.

Sometimes you would be happy with an Inspiration with HUD and an irritating buzzer and auto-on if you hit the water.

But if people think about ccr, think about some options:
-The HUD, heads up display is an optional tool with leds that shows you near your eye if the PO2 is ok or not. It is optional, you can dive without. But if something happens, you see the HUD most times first. My Sidekick does not have one. I don't miss it there. But my Inspiration has one and also the other ccr's I have dived. If you are new to ccr, think about the advantages of an HUD.
-The ADV, the automatic diluent valve. This is a sort of second stage that adds gas (diluent) automatically when your counterlungs are empty if you want to breathe in when going down. Like you have to pump gas in your bcd, you have to fill your counterlungs. Not all ccr's have an ADV (like for example the Manta lungs from Megalodon), and you can also buy the Inspiration without ADV. In every course you must learn to deal with a ccr without ADV. I will not buy one without. It is such an easy tool and makes your ccr life easier.
-The MAV. Manual Add Valve. Every ccr has normally mav's to add diluent and oxygen. You must be able to maintain PO2 and lungvolume with your mav's. On my sidekick I had first only an option to add diluentgas by manually pushing the adv. I could/can switch to other diluents by connecting other gases on the adv hose. On one dive when I went down to 47m, the ADV refused to work when I hit the 30m depth and was going deeper. I had to go to OC bailout and then found out the ADV was not working and I could not fix it during that (cave)dive. So I could only add diluent gas in the lung by blowing it over the mouthpiece into the lungs. For oxygen I had a mav. Now I have both oxy and dil over a Revo switchblock. The main is still the adv that works as mav. But I have now a second option when needed. You can dive without ADV, but not without mav's. I changed my configuration easier to add offboard gases.
-CO2 sensors. That is or not available on ccr's, or most times an optional thing. Sadly there are still problems with CO2 sensors and sometimes they work well, sometimes not. The Tempstik on the Inspiration or rms from revo works very well, it is not CO2 sensor, but measures the temperature of the scrubber. I don't have an CO2 sensor on my Inspiration, but have a Tempstik. It is an good investment, but the risk is that the Tempstik shows you can dive and in reality you get CO2 problems. So here again, use your brains.
-mCCR vs eCCR. I have both. Both have pros and cons. If you dive mCCR, you must regulate your personal oxygen need by changing the intermediatepressure of the first stage. Also the size of the orifice is important. Diving over 80-100m depth can be a problem with mccr due to the orifice/leaky valve. eCCR can make lazy divers. If the unit works, it will maintain a breathable PO2. But even here, always know your PO2, check your handset often, even if you have a HUD. And every eCCR diver must know how to handle the unit in mCCR mode.
-DSV (normal ccr mouthpiece, dive surface valve) vs OCB (open circuit bailoutvalve).With an ocb you can easy switch to your diluent by holding the same mouthpiece in your mouth. It will help in case of a CO2 hit. But if you have connected it to a 3 liter bottle it will not really help you at 100m depth. Also the mouthpiece is bigger and I don't like it, too heavy when scootering. Some people have an ocb to not take offboard bailout with them on shallow dives. Oh yes, a 3 liter will bring you up in open water from 10m depth if the cylinder is full. And the next dive you start with 150 bar to 15m, it still will bring you up. And then it will be a 20m dive and just 80 bars in the diluent before the dive. Then **** hits the fan and the 3 liter cylinder will not help you anymore. So if you have an ocb and do easy shallow dives, don't become lazy and even then take enough bo with you.

If I wanted to do the 'big 8' (deep loop) in the Resselcave I would prefer my Inspiration over my Sidekick. This has to do that scootering, manually maintain the right PO2 (at Puits 4 there is a risk it becomes too high if I don't close the leaky valve for a while when I go down, then I need to open it again when I am down, of course a right choice of diluent would prevent it also), and sidemount (you loose 1 stage/bailout position) makes it more complex than just taking a backmount CCR. Of course I can do that dive also on sidemount ccr.

 

[rjack321]

I read in other comments on fb that he was not found in the cave, but only at 7m depth. That means the entrance. So the 5-7 minutes divetime I read somewhere are then strange.

Its hard to tell the exact timeline from the reporting.
It may have taken him 5 to 7 minutes to put on his bailouts in 7m
Or that might be the total time he was underwater and when the other people noticed (even if he was unconscious earlier)

This does not seem to be medical at all.

 

[Germie]

@rjack321 , I think you don't know the cave. Normally you enter the water 60m from the entrance and then it is a upstream swim of 60m to the entrance. So you put on your gear where you enter the water, and then swim or scooter to the entrance.
I have done several dives there and the ones with scooter, I putted on my gear and bailouts and then put the mouthpiece in the mouth, scooter at surface to the entrance (the river is shallow, less than 2m most times, so diving is not a real option), you find the entrance easy and then the real dive starts.
You don't need to put a reel, the line starts at surface on the left side from the river seen.
If the water is clear you don't need to hold the line to enter the cave. The entrance is seen then from surface sometimes.
If the river is brown (also quite often), you can scooter to the entrance, then go down with the line. But putting on bailouts at 7m depth is really uncommon, or even impossible here.

 

[rjack321]

@rjack321 , I think you don't know the cave. Normally you enter the water 60m from the entrance and then it is a upstream swim of 60m to the entrance. So you put on your gear where you enter the water, and then swim or scooter to the entrance.
I have done several dives there and the ones with scooter, I putted on my gear and bailouts and then put the mouthpiece in the mouth, scooter at surface to the entrance (the river is shallow, less than 2m most times, so diving is not a real option), you find the entrance easy and then the real dive starts.
You don't need to put a reel, the line starts at surface on the left side from the river seen.
If the water is clear you don't need to hold the line to enter the cave. The entrance is seen then from surface sometimes.
If the river is brown (also quite often), you can scooter to the entrance, then go down with the line. But putting on bailouts at 7m depth is really uncommon, or even impossible here.

Have no idea but given the lack of training for gases and the dive in general it seems like he could have tried various unconventional things that you or I would not have tried. Maybe he scootered to the entrance not using the t-reb? Or maybe it was still full of O2 from his calibration and he used it up on the surface, then his ADV fired as he descended, his ppO2 dropped at 2-3m where he lost consciousness and he sank down to 7m?

In any case it sure seems like his O2 was probably off.