Parents sue Boy Scouts for 2011 negligence death
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So given the scenario that actually happened, do you see a way that the instructor could have remained in standards? That's the question many have asked. I agree that if a situation can arise where standards were followed up to an event that causes a choice between two out of standard scenarios that the standard itself is at fault.
It may be irrelevant to the legal proceedings, but there's no way the kid should have needed 35lbs in a 5mm wetsuit. If he needed that much weight maybe he wasn't a suitable candidate for scuba.
flots am
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So many people in these threads who appear to be instructors say that they can not possibly lead four participants by themselves on a DSD while still following all the other standards, particularly when the crap hits the fan. For the record, I can't imagine how to handle four myself but I certainly imagine that there are likely better instructors out there than me. Thinking about it, I can barely conceive of the unique set of circumstances where I'd feel that I could deal with three participants in the ocean. I regularly do handle two DSDs though, safely, within standards and to participant's enjoyment. Most of us seem to have figured out why and how to reduce the ratio - as we are required to do by PADI's standards - to a level that we can deal with. Why didn't this instructor do that?
Also, some people have said that only one, or even zero DSD participants can be done safely. I can accept that and respect your opinion but only about your own experience and applied to yourself. Just because you can't handle one or two DSDs, it doesn't mean that I can not. Just because I can't handle three or four, it doesn't mean that Joe Doe over at Super Divers can't. PADI's standards, if followed, currently fit all of us. An instructor who picks and chooses which standards he wants to follow creates his own problems.
....all in my most humble opinion.
Also, some people have said that only one, or even zero DSD participants can be done safely. I can accept that and respect your opinion but only about your own experience and applied to yourself. Just because you can't handle one or two DSDs, it doesn't mean that I can not. Just because I can't handle three or four, it doesn't mean that Joe Doe over at Super Divers can't. PADI's standards, if followed, currently fit all of us. An instructor who picks and chooses which standards he wants to follow creates his own problems.
....all in my most humble opinion.
According to the undisputed facts they were all on a line in less than 15 feet of water. How hard would it have been to simply keep them together? Shouldn't be but if it was then the instructor should have known that going in.
Taking the two boys up the line with the instructor at a safe ascent rate would have taken all of 15-25 seconds.
---------- Post added November 24th, 2014 at 02:20 PM ----------
And again if the parents lying about the child's acute asthma on the Medical forms turns out to be the trigger event- NOTHING else done or not may have mattered.
flots am
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Come on now, you called the other attorney out for not answering a direct question, so answer it without all of the fluff. You can't be saying that someone will always exhibit the same behavior in open water that they exhibited in the pool, or are you? So assuming that he did all of the required pre-OW work, how is an instructor to remain within standards if a student bolts and another remains stationary?
flots am
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Somewhere between difficult and impossible.
Given normal distances and human reaction time, by the time the instructor figured out that something was going on, it was already too late to keep them together. Someone would need to be chased and someone would need to be ignored.
The ascent could maybe be done that quickly once it starts, but getting them to understand what's going on takes time too, as does starting the ascent and controlling their buoyancy. Then you have to make them positively buoyant on the surface and make sure they're OK and communicate that they should stay put.
Then you abandon them on the surface (another "violation"), and look around for the participant who bolted and handle that emergency. By this time, it's entirely possible that the original victim may have surfaced, panicked or passed out, and re-descended.
Even times when I've already been on the surface, specifically watching for problems, and ready to assist, once someone pops up, there aren't a whole lot of seconds before they go back under, especially if it was from a medical problem.
The real answer is that more than 1:1 simply isn't workable.
I'll give you partial credit on that one, although even asthma is better handled when there's nobody else to worry about.
flots.
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Or when one bolts and as the instructor is reacting to that one the other may have an asthma attack due to the stress of the situation, the stress of being underwater, the residual effects of a respiratory infection that was lied about in order to put the kid in the water? Again it's why pool only, one to one with kids, and maybe with adults as well. The more of these I do the more one to one or two to one only with a CA makes sense. And none in open water. Actual pool only.
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