Ginnie Springs, CDA, and Dive Instructor sued over drowning death

[Manatee Diver]

Golf courses now that makes more sense... they are growing a crop of grass for looks... not to harvest,

Golf courses are super rare in this area, so you can't blame a majority of the phosphates on golf courses.

And no I don't want to stop food production, I just want to encourage more environmentally sustainable methods of food production.

For example due to the water shortage in California they developed methods of targeted watering. That hasn't come to Florida because $175 gets you all the water you want for a year. Start metering water usage and charging by use for all commercial accounts. It doesn't need to very high, in fact start it very very low and ramp it up slowly to get the desired balance.

I think we need better planning for fertilizer application for all forms of commercial usages, plans to deal with run offs from livestock, etc.

I don't want to turn Florida into California, but I also don't want to destroy the fragile ecosystems of the Florida springs. We have to find a balance that works for everyone.

Though this problem might be solved in the future as farm fields are turned into cookie cutter communities or solar panels. But then we have a different problem, too many yankees.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

But then we have a different problem, too many yankees.

Amen.

 

[kensuf]

Golf courses now that makes more sense... they are growing a crop of grass for looks... not to harvest,

It really bugs me that alot of people want to blame food production, on everything.

It will never happen but if all farmer went on strike for 30 days (even a week) the results would be unbelievable.
Thank a farmer, they are the reason,
You have time to go diving, instead of
Trying to grow enough food to survive in your backyard.

Gilchrist county, where Ginnie springs is, has large farms growing soy and corn to feed cattle. The farms use pivot irrigation systems to spray fertilizer on the crops. The underlying ground is limestone, very pourous material - the fertilizers can be traced in the groundwater. Unfortunately I don't have photos on my phone and I'm on vacation in Waikiki beach, maybe someone will be kind enough to post some photos of the pivot irrigation systems for you.

 

[cerich]

. But then we have a different problem, too many yankees.

even after 22 years living in the south I find that amusing as a Canadian, because for us growing up it didn't matter where from in the states every American was a Yankee. In fairness, MA fisherman were the "Darn (well, close to darn) Yankees" because of the frequent arguments over what part of the grand banks was ours and theirs.

To the fertilizer, yes it's a problem, and what some may not appreciate being from places with less growing season is that in Florida there are multiple growing seasons all year and multiple applications of fertilizer, so even a farmer trying to only use what they need for cost and environmental reasons, any excess, rains after application etc does end up in the aquifer, where it does impact.
Also, what some of these Florida cave instructors haven't expressed that may help context is that in the quest for cave access it's not infrequent to come across a farmer that has some secret pumps and is not very eager for any cave divers to discover or document them.. and because the local cave instructors are part of the community, they may not like it much at all but they are also not going to be highlighting or yapping about it because that is not how it works in the south generally vs some other places. They are much more likely to be strategic about it and try to influence the farmer thru family, friends etc and when that fails pray that the next generation is better while also praying that some huge agg firm doesn't buy the land because they are worse (or said tract development of mini mansions with nothing but folks from the same neighbourhood in the northeast). I actually respect that aspect of the south because there tends to be some respect of other people even if you disagree with versus the immediate reaction in some places to pull the gov into everything and tear apart the place. There is too much of that. Like jim points out, they know that farmers are the backbone of America, and know that it's a hard business where a bad year can wipe out a multi generational effort for the farmer, so being too quick to judge isn't helping anyone.

 

[Gone for diving]

what some may not appreciate being from places with less growing season is that in Florida there are multiple growing seasons all year and multiple applications of fertilizer, so even a farmer trying to only use what they need for cost and environmental reasons, any excess, rains after application etc does end up in the aquifer, where it does impact.

Yeah year round is not possible in Ontario. They must be get 2- 3 crops a year?

If you can go year round, that is hard on the soil and if there is very little crop rotation, you do have to be aggressive on fertilizer, and other things, but to say they are dumping it for the sake of it, that's usually not what happens.

In the case of flooding the farmer is not happy, the crop might die, but even if it doesn't. All the nutrients are largely gone, so flooding is natural cause, and can't blame that as much.

I was not sure what they grow there, I was thinking fruit, maybe,
Do the grow hay as well? That would be a good rotation. Alfalfa puts nitrogen back into the ground...

 

[kensuf]

Yeah year round is not possible in Ontario. They must be get 2- 3 crops a year?

If you can go year round, that is hard on the soil and if there is very little crop rotation, you do have to be aggressive on fertilizer, and other things, but to say they are dumping it for the sake of it, that's usually not what happens.

I was not sure what they grow there, I was thinking fruit, maybe,

The primary crops in cave country are corn and soy, used to feed the cattle. Fun fact, at one point Florida had more heads of cattle than Texas.

 

[cerich]

The primary crops in cave country are corn and soy, used to feed the cattle. Fun fact, at one point Florida had more heads of cattle than Texas.

Yeah year round is not possible in Ontario. They must be get 2- 3 crops a year?

If you can go year round, that is hard on the soil and if there is very little crop rotation, you do have to be aggressive on fertilizer, and other things, but to say they are dumping it for the sake of it, that's usually not what happens.

In the case of flooding the farmer is not happy, the crop might die, but even if it doesn't. All the nutrients are largely gone, so flooding is natural cause, and can't blame that as much.

I was not sure what they grow there, I was thinking fruit, maybe,
Do the grow hay as well? That would be a good rotation. Alfalfa puts nitrogen back into the ground...

now, consider groundwater temps FL vs ON and the what occurs due to fertilizer infiltration into said groundwater. A little will go a long way in FL because the conditions for algae growth etc in the FL aquifer is more conducive.

 

[BRT]

No towns closeby - High Springs is the closest, several miles away. Anyway it did not smell like septic, it was fertilizer.

I think farmers and farming are the backbone of America. I hope people don't complain about farmers with their mouths full.

However this I am talking about is real.

I have spread a lot of tons of fertilizer. I don't know what it smells like

 

[Gone for diving]

I have spread a lot of tons of fertilizer. I don't know what it smells like

I guess it depends what you call fertilizer.....
I assume they are talking granular, (which doesn't really smell,)

but with irrigation it must be a liquid.

I know the different smells of.
cow manure
Chicken manure
Pig manure
quail manure
And treated human (it's the worse)

 

[drrich2]

Are people fertilizing lawns an issue in that area? In some places, lawn fertilizer runoff is considered a problem. I don't know whether it's one there.