Panic - Split from overweight thread

[Thalassamania]

Thank you for that good post Walter. Too bad there aren't more instructors like you.
I personally feel that today's average OW training is completely inadequate; unfortunately I keep getting flamed by naysayers for saying so.

Seconded (and Rick too).

 

[Walter]

Pete, no one is saying anything about elitist instructors. No one is saying this isn't about panic. What I'm saying is there are real proven ways to reduce the chances of panic. Anyone can use these methods, there's nothing magical or even difficult about them. They are actually easier for both the instructor and the student. No one is advocating military training. No one is advocating pushups in SCUBA gear. Any time any one discusses training that isn't quick, cheap and sorely lacking in basic skills, there's always someone trying to link it to "the good old days" or "SEAL training." It has nothing to do with either, but tossing out that concept is an excellent way to belittle methods that don't fit the party line.

If diving is safer than when you were a kid, it's not because training is better, but because most divers today get at least a little training. When we were kids, diving with no training at all was quite common.

 

[northen diver]

Training to master fear and panic has nothing to do with OW training what so ever, its a complex topic of its own. Its not taught in diving, its not taught in driving classes, skydiving classes or any other sport with inherent risk.
Personally I have done lots of excersises and drills with the specific purpose of reducing the risk of panic and learning to avoid panicing. I have also been in lots of situations where Ive been on the brink of panic and a few where I have infact paniced.
If you have never paniced, I dont think you can even begin to understand what youre being told it feels like or how its recognized, nor learn to controll it.

I also did overcome a phobia for syringes that made absolutely no sense to me or even people i knew. Just TALK about a syringe would turn me greenish white and make me sweat and freeze, make my heart race and force me to start looking for escape routes.
At the same time I had no problem with EOD duty..
No, trying to talk to me about syringes in a sensible way wouldnt do me ANY good, infact it would just get me started to panic.
Less than 1 hour of the correct mental exercises however and I could go back to the doctor without anything but wondering if it really worked and it did..

As more information on this incident has come from people in this thread who apparently know the ones involved, I can start seeing ways this incident "makes sense", unlike what I could see from the first post.
A tragic incident whatever the full story is and even more so because it happened with her friend and children at the scene. I truely hope they get the help and care they need to deal with this traumatic experience.

If this is true, how come you learned (trained) mask clearing and buddy breathing? Why not just wait until your mask gets knocked off in 60 feet of water to learn how to clear the mask. Maybe because it is a stressful task at first and needs to be practiced (learned) in a controlled enviroment in case panic sets in.

,

 

[Rick Murchison]

... Again, out of context....

Can't read your mind, Walter. When you hang a statement like

The onset of panic is very well understood and easily avoided.

with no "context" around it and no reference to any other post when the thread has started talking about panic in general, it's hard to know you aren't And I just have this burning need to specify and clarify, lest anyone be led astray.
Rick

 

[Tigerman]

If this is true, how come you learned (trained) mask clearing and buddy breathing? Why not just wait until your mask gets knocked off in 60 feet of water to learn how to clear the mask. Maybe because it is a stressful task at first and needs to be practiced (learned) in a controlled enviroment in case panic sets in.

,

Sorry, but practicing the required SKILLS is NOT the same as practicing how to handle an oncoming panic.
Some people might find it stressfull to remove, replace and clear a mask, sure, but its NOT practicing how to handle a panic situation.
Practicing skills might help you avoid NEEDING the stress/panic management training, but its NOT stress/panic management training on its own.

 

[Walter]

Can't read your mind, Walter. When you hang a statement like with no "context" around it and no reference to any other post when the thread has started talking about panic in general, it's hard to know you aren't And I just have this burning need to specify and clarify, lest anyone be led astray.
Rick

Fair enough, but I'm still pretty sure you knew I was talking about diving. How often do I really discuss anything else? LOL!

 

[Walter]

Sorry, but practicing the required SKILLS is NOT the same as practicing how to handle an oncoming panic.
Some people might find it stressfull to remove, replace and clear a mask, sure, but its NOT practicing how to handle a panic situation.
Practicing skills might help you avoid NEEDING the stress/panic management training, but its NOT stress/panic management training on its own.

We are discussing preventing panic, not handling panic. One way to prevent panic is to take the stress out of the situation. I believe most, if not all of us might have panicked if we our mask was suddenly removed underwater if we'd never learned no mask breathing and mask clearing. I think it is an excellent example of one thing that helps divers prevent panic.

 

[Tigerman]

Of course it is. It's just not taught in the majority of them.

Youre right, I might have exxagurated a little..
Rescue does involve some stress/panic recognition/management, doesnt it?

 

[Walter]

Youre right, I might have exxagurated a little..

We're all guilty from time to time.

 

[Tigerman]

We are discussing preventing panic, not handling panic. One way to prevent panic is to take the stress out of the situation. I believe most, if not all of us might have panicked if we our mask was suddenly removed underwater if we'd never learned no mask breathing and mask clearing. I think it is an excellent example of one thing that helps divers prevent panic.

I cant say for scuba, but when I was younger and stuck to snorkeling my mask was ripped off my face many times while down there without any "supprises" happening. The regulator could of course change that.

Avoiding panic however still is NOT panic management, its exactly what I did before i got my phobia with syringes dealt with, removing the topic..
A diver in the water, already paniced for whatever reason, it being related to their skills or a boat ripping their arm off, is beyond the point of "avoiding panic" as in this tragic incident this thread where all about once a long derail ago