The Wisdom? of Split Dives Discussion

[doctormike]

It's like saying you shouldn't drive a car if they can't affort a new E-class Mercedes because their safer than an old Toyota. It's an assine argument. People will do what they affort and continue to do so, if you and Mike like it or not.

Somehow, I can imagine this argument occurring 30 years ago, with someone beating me up for being a clueless, arrogant, out of touch elitist for suggesting the use of trimix for deep dives, since not everyone can afford it.

 

[berndo]

Somehow, I can imagine this argument occurring 30 years ago, with someone beating me up for being a clueless, arrogant, out of touch elitist for suggesting the use of trimix for deep dives, since not everyone can afford it.

It's more like right now when an older out of shape dude shows up at the dive club or trip and tells the younger people how they should look for another hobby because they wont be able to afford it.

 

[doctormike]

It's more like right now when an older out of shape dude shows up at the dive club or trip and tells the younger people how they should look for another hobby because they wont be able to affort it.

Did that happen to you?

 

[Nick_Radov]

I'm just saying that for MY diving, that's not the standard of care, and there is no way that I would do a deep technical CCR dive with no dive boat on station. And for many years, I have not had to make that choice, since all the technical wreck diving that I have done - here, in Florida, in Truk Lagoon, in Newfoundland - having the dive boat on station has been a given.

On the US west coast it is common practice to do deep technical shore dives. So there is no dive boat on station. This isn't a problem. In a sense it's a bit like cave diving (without the risks of an actual overhead environment) in that the dive team needs to be more self sufficient and able to return to the entry point even if an emergency occurs. Obviously this is only safe at sites where navigation is easy and you aren't going to get swept away by strong currents.

 

[berndo]

Did that happen to you?

No, I'm one of the older people and have access to a private boat. I just don't like arrogance towards people with normal jobs that also want to be in the hobby.

 

[doctormike]

On the US west coast it is common practice to do deep technical shore dives. So there is no dive boat on station. This isn't a problem. In a sense it's a bit like cave diving (without the risks of an actual overhead environment) in that the dive team needs to be more self sufficient and able to return to the entry point even if an emergency occurs. Obviously this is only safe at sites where navigation is easy and you aren't going to get swept away by strong currents.

Right, that makes sense. But of course, that's a very different question that what we are discussing here (technical ocean wreck diving). I can think of a few people who are here today because they had the assets of a dive platform on site (resuscitation and rapid transport)

As I said, if the local culture there is that split drops are acceptable, so be it. There's no scuba police.

But the idea that a dive boat is just a taxi to the site and has no responsibility for the safety of the divers once they splash has been disproven a number of times in court, from what I understand...

 

[scubadada]

in general we run deep technical dives only as dedicated tech boats with the boat providing surface support on-site. Sometimes we'll run split boats BUT that is for dives within recreational limits. For example, an ANDP instructor is taking a student to 110' feet and the OW divers need 60'.
Once we start talking about dives past 130'....it's a tech boat. And yes....it costs a little bit more as we put fewer divers on board.

Wow and how many hundreds of yards separation in the groups do you feel is sufficiently safe for your customers?

Some of the “stuff” that the scuba industry deems appropriate is far away from my personal decisions.

I am much more comfortable diving deep air solo than doing 130 feet deep drift dive in a screaming current with no boat following me! This is actually becoming one of the more interesting discussions on here.

I know quite a few old school divers who have done thousands of dives over several dozen years in this local area, and much of it solo and they would not stand for any of this sheeet! They want a boat there when they come up.

Hi @johndiver999

Being from Florida, I assume you have done some diving in Jupiter, Palm Beach, and/or Boynton Beach. Isn't the diving as I described in my earlier post?

The Wisdom? of Split Dives Discussion

Couldn't they just go on different boats? Are you saying that there is no safety advantage of surface support? Especially for a technical dive? I mean, most of the accidents that I have seen around here involve the injured diver being immediately brought on board the dive platform where...

scubaboard.com

In Jupiter or Palm Beach, you can simply stay with the guide. That will at least place you with the flag and with other people. The boat might not be very close though as they may be picking up others first. For the other conditions I listed, you or your group will be by yourselves on your flag or DSMB and will have to wait a variable time for pickup.

There are many reasons that individuals or groups may end up farther apart than you would expect, I mentioned different start locations earlier, inside or outside the reef. Sometimes the current is significantly different inside or outside of the reef. Some divers will hook off for various periods of time to pursue hunting or photography. Some divers swim their rears off and some are slow and leisurely. Sometimes divers make a mistake and swim against a mild current, spending the entire hour going in the opposite direction as most of the other divers. Dives may be limited by NDL or gas, separating divers by time as well as distance. The boat captains do a very good job at handling all these variables. I don't see drift diving in Palm Beach County changing anytime soon

I've been diving here since 2009, just under 1300 dives, not much has changed over that time period. Of interest, more operators are requiring nitrox and more are requiring AOW to do a subset of their dives. This has been discussed in another thread

Pending changes for certifications required for JDC dives

After browsing the thread discussing Lemon Shark aggregation, I went to the Jupiter Dive Center website to check their calendar and noticed some notifications of changes Starting on April 1, there will be no air dives, nitrox only, and AOW will be required on all dives except for routine 2 tank...

scubaboard.com

 

[johndiver999]

Yeah I dive in palm beach and for many years the charters were fewer and more strict. You got dropped with a dive guide who pulled a float and you were expected to stay with the group, more or less. On a big boat there might be two or maybe three groups each with their own ball. Typically the groups were dropped on sections of a linear reef line, so the capt could see all the balls and they would not be all over the place. Now it seems there is a much more casual attitude with people not towing a float and popping up all over the place. It is less safe, but I guess competition between charters and customer demand has allowed a different sop. Also everyone has an smb now, which wasn’t universal quite a while ago.

I stopped diving with a guy, and a good bit of the reason he did not pull a float. Driving all over the ocean looking for him, hoping he didn’t get chopped up, trying to guesstimate the wind and current drift and how long he might have been on the surface are all stressors that I have eventually deemed “not worth the juice”.

I don’t really dive from charter boats, so I only get to see the results of people all over the place. It still remains a judgement call of how far you want to deliberately scatter different groups at the start of the dive. 60 ft to 130 depth is “a ways” to deliberately scatter recreational customers. That is why I asked how far away are they willing to drop them. And of course all the reasons you provided about why customers will get even more scattered after the drop are all valid.

 

[chillyinCanada]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This thread is re-opened, however, some clean up will continue

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