PADI tables finally going away?

[tbeindit]

I agree, I think the tables are becoming irrelevant to diving. Saying they aren't is simply lying either to others to to yourself. We all know tables have been being used with more scarcity at a steadily increasing rate.
Should they be totally removed? Of course not, they have their place, but we all know that they place has reduced, I think it would be more intelligent to decrease the amount of time covering the tables and perhaps add more about deciphers what computers are saying or what can go wrong with them and how to react.

 

[isomalt]

Divers That don’t Plan a Dive then Dive the Plan using table are asking for problems
There is a reason that commercial divers (at least in Canada don’t know about the USA) are required to use tables (computers are backup only or not used) tables came from a lot of research the computers are algorithms based on those tables. To not learn them is………
That’s my 2 cense

 

[GrimSleeper]

Nope. Been there, dove that.

And yet you laid into someone for suggesting they might be able to cope with the narcotic effects of air at 80 feet?

I'm all for 'whatever it takes to get the dive done' when it comes to my own diving, as long as there's an objective that makes it worth the risk. But I try to teach entry level divers - who don't have the same wealth of experience, knowledge of decompression theory, and rough idea of what will probably work, based on years of using dive tables and computers that you or I might have - to dive responsibly, dive conservatively, and dive safely within the accepted limits. They need information, whether it's from a computer or from tables.

Are you seriously saying that you'd be happy for an entry-level student to tell you that their dive plan for a check-out dive was to 'stick close to their buddy and follow their buddy's computer' and hope that worked? Because if that's what you recommend as a back-up plan for computer failure, shouldn't you have your students doing that in class?

Grae

 

[The Chairman]

And yet you laid into someone for suggesting they might be able to cope with the narcotic effects of air at 80 feet?

I have to wonder WHY you excel at misstating what I have posted so consistently? Most everyone can handle the narcosis induced by being at 80 fsw. I never ever said that they couldn't. What I took exception to was the declaration that they were not narced at 130 fsw. That's just DENIAL in my book and the root of many a diving accident. I am truly starting to suspect troll mentality with you.

I'm all for 'whatever it takes to get the dive done'

There: we agree!

Are you seriously saying that you'd be happy for an entry-level student

Not while they are a student. They can't learn how to use the PDC without one in their possession.

to tell you that their dive plan for a check-out dive was to 'stick close to their buddy and follow their buddy's computer' and hope that worked? Because if that's what you recommend as a back-up plan for computer failure, shouldn't you have your students doing that in class?

I don't turn their air off at depth either just to freak them out. I encourage you to check out the required dive equipment for NAUI divers. Just how many depth gauges are required amongst a buddy pair? How many watches? How many SPGs? You might be surprised at the results.

 

[Slonda828]

Really. It all depends on how motivated you are to dive. I actually believe it would be easier to find a rental PDC than a rental depth gauge. How many extra watches do you see hanging around on a dive boat? I am not above sticking to my dive buddy like glue and using his/her PDC either.

The second to the last time I forgot my PDC (it does happen), the captain loaned me his. I didn't even much know how to use it. I muddled through with it.

WOW....that's what you are going to espouse as a SCUBA instructor? You can have your opinions, but I am glad that my partners and I feel different. We will continue to run our dive shop and instruction by offering tables and computers in our OW classes. So much for safe diving practices buddy. I would feel free to mention to the others divers reading this that "winging it" is not a very smart idea, and neither is muddling through it.

 

[The Chairman]

WOW....that's what you are going to espouse as a SCUBA instructor?

Why lie? Show me how it's "unsafe".

Every dive has three limits. Gas, depth and time. You just need to not exceed any of those limits or any personal ones you might have.

 

[Slonda828]

What does anyone do in this sport,when they are not able to maintain or get their gear together.

You could just aswell asked what that diver would do when forgetting their reg. , BC or what ever.

Charter boats commonly carry an extra reg and BC, all of the ones I have used certainly do. Dive computers are one of those things that kind of have peculiarities to them, and even if they had an extra one, how comfortable would you feel using it on a dive? All of this just to avoid using a set of tables, which cost like 9 bucks and fit in your logbook. I call that cheap insurance. Is the random computer you grab set to your personal settings? How about fresh or salt water? Does it do nitrox? All that BS to have to go through when I could just whip open my log book and use my brain for about 15 second if my computer broke. You do things your way, and I'll do them mine, to each his own.

When it comes to training though, we still teach tables and computers. I feel like we owe divers that much, and we're smart and educated enough to ensure early success on their part.

 

[GrimSleeper]

You are too deluded and dangerous for me to dive with my friend. Have fun, but not with me around. You can easily tell you are narced when your gauge reads below 80fsw. You may not feel it, but that doesn't mean your faculties aren't compromised. For most, narcosis is a silent killer. Perhaps you are suffering from surface narcosis. I don't know that anyone has suggested that in this thread. I certainly have not done so. There are a few more windmills to the south, should you deign to tilt at them as well.

Well, I appear to have misread this statement. Perhaps I should have said 81ft?

I'm a little offended by the suggestion that I'm trolling. And - although it was meant to be light-hearted - I can see that you'd be offended by my similar suggestion of you earlier. So please consider that withdrawn.

Now, back to the matter at hand...

I guess where I'm confused is your antipathy to the idea that we might teach both tables and computers. Surely, anything that gives students a broader knowledge base is good? Why drop something that we already know works when it could usefully be taught in tandem with newer procedures? Is it really such a burden in terms of time or student effort to teach them the tables first, then give them an overview of how a dive computer works (and then take them diving with a computer and, hopefully, sell them one... )

Grae

 

[The Chairman]

Well, I appear to have misread this statement. Perhaps I should have said 81ft?

Back up a few posts and read where he claims no problems until he reaches 150 fsw. That's delusional.

So please consider that withdrawn.

Good enough.

I guess where I'm confused is your antipathy to the idea that we might teach both tables and computers.

I am an independent instructor so I am not interested in selling them gear. I am interested in teaching them how to dive given the time they will allow me. You won't hear a lot of war stories of daring do from me unless they specifically relate to the subject. I simply don't waste time because it's way counter productive. My goal is to get them up to speed with the skills that they need to go diving. Given my heavy travel schedule, I have stopped teaching academics almost altogether. I love SDI's web based learning and the fact that they don't require the use of tables for my students. I spend about four hours of class room time discussing safety, using PDCs, hand sginals and all the rest. Then the rest of my time with them is spent in the pool and open water. THAT'S where they learn those mad diving skills like trim, buoyancy and confidence.

 

[Slonda828]

We are obviously never to to reach any kind of decision point here, so I am posting my summary points for anyone that may come across this thread from the search engines, and taking my ball and going home (so to speak). I promised my girlfriend I wouldn't get my PTSD all up in arms because of people on the internet.

-Tables and computers need to be taught in OW, that way divers are familiar with both.

-If you are short on cash, tables are roughly 9 dollars. Pretty much any dive computer is at least 200 dollars.

-Tables are a great secondary to a primary computer, especially for diving in remote locations, on vacations, or on boats. If you carry a wrist watch and use a SPG, you can still make all your dives if your computer craps out or is currently nestled in the back seat of your car.

-Do not take my word for it, if you do not know how to use dive tables, you will instantly learn their relevance when you lose, break, or forget your dive computer and you are 20 miles out to sea on a charter boat.

-If you do not know how to use dive tables, and you instructor did not or will not teach you, come up to Savannah and we will. We have coffee, our own pool, and we will do it for free. We are well versed in Navy, NASDS, PADI, NAUI, and several other models of conventional table.