PADI OW Final Exam Questions that are either wrong or just bad

[VikingDives]

Shouldn't you actively help someone who's out of gas? (not saying you personally!)

Genuinely; if someone's signalling they're OOG, there's only seconds to prevent them from drowning. The whole "make like a starfish" so they can grab the auxiliary is just mad.

This is why the longhose is so effective: grab it from your mouth and shove it in their face: done. You know where your necklaced backup is and you breathe. Everyone lives.

I don't disagree with any of the above, but my point was that he'd been trained to do one thing, and he froze because I didn't respond the way he'd been trained.

To your point however, in a typical rec config, if your buddy is right next to or behind you, it may be more efficient to just grab the octo - for example if the person donating is ahead or and moving away from the OOG diver.

When I train OW students, I teach or demo all three methods. I struggle with how to configure my students though - most of them aren't going to be buying regulators, and will be using vacation/rental gear. While I think that primary donation is superior, most of my student's aren't going to use that kind of gear, and if they do, it potentially adds a level of complexity to their dives. Having a long hose means having to explain to an instabuddy who has likely never seen such a config or been trained on it, how they'll donate air.

 

[Belzelbub]

Exactly. Quite often there isn't anything on the tank depicting the blend until AFTER the diver analyzes it. Which makes the question just BAD.

Without knowing the context of the module where the question appeared, it's tough to say, but I do lean toward there not being anything until it is first analyzed.

That's been my experience and how it was explained in my EAN course. Though I've never actually seen a tank labeled in the way the course described. When I have my tanks filled at my local shop, I fill out the log reporting pressure and mix. There is also a roll of blue masking tape and a sharpie. I just mark the mix on it. I don't generally record the MOD.

But, this may be different if using rental tanks. I don't usually rent tanks, but would imagine that it might be different. I would expect that the rental tanks may be filled before the diver rents them. In those cases, the shop might want to label them once filled. Then when the diver picks them up, they should analyze and confirm that the analysis matches the label.

 

[scubaozy]

The training standard is to "secure" AGS, this could be in the form of being handed or pulling it from the holder on your own.
I had once someone having mouthpiece detached from her 2nd stage and swallowing a lot of water, she just got directly to my octopus. My head was inside an overhang, was trying to photograph something, I did not notice until something hit me.
I use rec config for rec diving, in my view, this is what the majority of the people expect in an emergency as they are trained for this. I hear often people commenting that oog diver will go for your primary but my experience and the many around me has different experience.

 

[boulderjohn]

OK, so the secondary is right there under the chin. What if it isn’t? What if the bungee came loose or the mouthpiece ripped or a handful of other things that can happen to a dormant reg?

Here is the significant difference between the two systems:

• The traditional octo is in a holder designed for easy release. The intention is that the regulator will come out of its holder easily, and that is what happens. As an instructor teaching classes, I had to get students to put their octos back in place frequently, especially before doing an OOA drill.
• The alternate on the bungee is supposed to stay there, and it is designed to be secure. It is not supposed to come out easily, and it doesn't. Different systems are used for this. One example is securing the bungee to the mouthpiece using the same zip tie that holds the mouthpiece on.

 

[boulderjohn]

When I was doing the confined water portion of my IE, my buddy for the OOA demonstration was a candidate who'd been taught by another course director. There were five people in that group, and I noticed that all of them were donating the primary to their buddy.

When it became our turn, he signaled out of air, I raised my arm so he could grab my octo and he froze. I could tell by his look of confusion and panic that he had never encountered this scenario before. I ended up donating by grabbing my octo and handing it to him.

Long story short, he passed his IE and is an instructor out there somewhere. . .

As I taught my students, if you are the donor, it does not matter what you were trained to do. The OOA diver decides what is going to happen.

• If the OOA diver signals OOA and stares at you, reach for your alternate and donate it.
• If the OOA diver reaches for your alternate, with or without a signal, get out of the way. In conducting OW certification dives, I have on several occasions had students who were trained differently. In every single case in which the OOA diver reached to take the alternate at the same time that the donor reached to donate the alternate, their hands collided, and the alternate was dropped.
• If the OOA diver reaches for your primary, open your mouth so your teeth aren't injured and take your alternate. This is no time to get into a fight.

The most imbecilic thing I have ever heard of is instructors teaching students that if the OOA diver goes for your primary, cover it with one hand to prevent that and donate with the other. The last thing I want to do with a panicked diver is get into a fight over a regulator when there is one for each of us. It's a good way to have two drownings.

 

[VikingDives]

As I taught my students, if you are the donor, it does not matter what you were trained to do. The OOA diver decides what is going to happen.

• If the OOA diver signals OOA and stares at you, reach for your alternate and donate it.
• If the OOA diver reaches for your alternate, with or without a signal, get out of the way. In conducting OW certification dives, I have on several occasions had students who were trained differently. In every single case in which the OOA diver reached to take the alternate at the same time that the donor reached to donate the alternate, their hands collided, and the alternate was dropped.
• If the OOA diver reaches for your primary, open your mouth so your teeth aren't injured and take your alternate. This is no time to get into a fight.

The most imbecilic thing I have ever heard of is instructors teaching students that if the OOA diver goes for your primary, cover it with one hand to prevent that and donate with the other. The last thing I want to do with a panicked diver is get into a fight over a regulator when there is one for each of us. It's a good way to have two drownings.

Agreed to all of the above. This is the skill that I've struggled with the most in open water training, from a philosophical perspective. I personally believe and do donate my primary in the event of an OOG, or a student panic, regardless of how I'm configured.

I also believe that you should train the way you're going to fight. That means for most of my students, they'll be in a standard rec. config with an octo.

My latest iteration is to use a long hose, and have a clip so I can use the long hose as an octo. That way students can see a demo of a long hose donation, and both types of octo donation. They still have a typical rec. setup, but at least they're familiar with being on the receiving end of every type of typical donation.

This is probably material for another thread though. It seems we've strayed way off the path of the original question, in a most scuba board like manner.

 

[gamon]

It seems we've strayed way off the path of the original question, in a most scuba board like manner.

What else is new. Seems like the best thread topics end up completely off the rails and nothing is done about it.

 

[Wibble]

Agreed to all of the above. This is the skill that I've struggled with the most in open water training, from a philosophical perspective. I personally believe and do donate my primary in the event of an OOG, or a student panic, regardless of how I'm configured.

I also believe that you should train the way you're going to fight. That means for most of my students, they'll be in a standard rec. config with an octo.

My latest iteration is to use a long hose, and have a clip so I can use the long hose as an octo. That way students can see a demo of a long hose donation, and both types of octo donation. They still have a typical rec. setup, but at least they're familiar with being on the receiving end of every type of typical donation.

This is probably material for another thread though. It seems we've strayed way off the path of the original question, in a most scuba board like manner.

Seems a little like the longhose configuration in sidemount. The bolt snap on the longhose has a breakable "fuse" so in extremis you can tug on the clipped off hose and break the bolt snap off of the hose (use an O-ring).

The longhose works best with the 2.1m/7ft hose, but this requires a canister battery or suchlike to keep it in place on your RH waistbelt. It also works with a shorter 1.5m/5ft hose which — as long as you’re not too big — goes under your RH armpit.

 

[Lorenzoid]

What else is new. Seems like the best thread topics end up completely off the rails and nothing is done about it.

Feel free to use the Report button.

 

[Chavodel8en]

Here is the significant difference between the two systems:

• The traditional octo is in a holder designed for easy release. The intention is that the regulator will come out of its holder easily, and that is what happens. As an instructor teaching classes, I had to get students to put their octos back in place frequently, especially before doing an OOA drill.

This is why I switched to primary donate. Im fine with the philosophy of traditional donate, and prefer it over primary donate (1 diver switching regs is better than 2 divers having to switch regs).

But I have never been able to find an octo holder that both holds securely and allows for immediate access (If there was one, I'd probably still be traditional donate). I got tired of retrieving and restowing my octo on all my dives. So primary donate it is.