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PADI OW and BPW

Discussion in 'Scuba Certification Agency Q&A' started by JBFG, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. Eric Sedletzky

    Eric Sedletzky Contributor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: California
    4,616
    5,219
    Well in the beginning that was true, mainstream dive gear manufacturers did not have anything to do with BP/W systems because that was considered “technical gear” and the domain of companies like Diverite, OMS, and a little while later Halcyon. Then there were other independents that got on the BP/W party like DSS and a host of others. It wasn’t until years later that Apeks, SP, and Cressi got on the bandwagon. By that time it was too late, the BP/W legacy had already been established as an “alternative” gear choice, property of the internet.

    I think we’ve had many conversations in the past about my times going shop to shop introducing my system and the hatred and contempt I experienced regarding the concept of the BP/W.
     
  2. wetb4igetinthewater

    wetb4igetinthewater Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Seattle
    5,832
    4,152
    I just shake my head at the owner's attitude.
     
  3. MichaelMc

    MichaelMc Working toward Cenotes ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Berkeley, CA
    2,211
    1,391
    1) Do we have data that most BP/W users bought their first unit online?
    2) If that is because their initial shop did not sell PB/W and they no longer go back there, Hartattack's point is made.

    My first BP/W was a Halcyon with OxyCheq wing and I still go back to that shop, though I was not a new diver, just a reemerging one.
     
    Hartattack likes this.
  4. jborg

    jborg Lurker ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Sweden
    115
    143
    There's some sort of culture difference here between (e.g.) bikers and divers, too. I don't recall who or when, but there was someone who posted here on SB a short anecdote about coming up from the water and meeting a small group of mountain bikers and chatting to them about diving. One of the bikers had some comment about divers being an annoying group of people because they were always being dicks about other people's equipment -- doing it wrong, "you're gonna die", split fins, bp/w, you name it. Mountain bikers were apparently more likely to say "cool bike dude" and move on with life, whereas a fellow diver would be likely to start berating you for the color of your LP hose.

    There's an awful lot of equipment fundamentalism in diving, on and off of SB... I'm not surprised it's the same in dive shops.
     
    Lostdiver71 likes this.
  5. Eric Sedletzky

    Eric Sedletzky Contributor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: California
    4,616
    5,219
    Hard data? Probably not. But through the process of deduction, when 99.9% of shops back in ‘99 - 2000 never even heard of one and there were people beginning to use them, my take away is that they were bought online.
    I’m not a newbie at this, I’ve studied this stuff hard. I’m in the business you know.
    When did you buy your Halcyon system and what shop? In the early 2000’s there were a few shops in the Bay Area/ Monterey that carried the stuff, but the majority of others did not.
     
  6. MichaelMc

    MichaelMc Working toward Cenotes ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Berkeley, CA
    2,211
    1,391
    I got mine at AnyWater the end of 2014, while taking Nitrox from them for a trip and gearing up for the Berkeley AAUS scientific dive program. Today they seem common in Bay/Monterey dive shops though I've not done a survey.
     
  7. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
    27,768
    21,457
    I am really puzzling over some of the recent comments, trying to think of reasons for how dive shop's behave without being able to nail it down. I thought I would add an anecdote to the evidence pile for people to contemplate. I am going to be a bit evasive about some details to avoid a fight.

    A friend and I were preparing to get on the boat after a dive, and my friend dropped a fin, which dropped quickly into the abyss. Oh, well, he was going to have to buy a new pair of fins. He was by no means a tech diver, but he wanted a stiff blade fin with a large sidewall, features useful with certain kinds of kicks. When the boat got back, we went into the shop that owned the boat, certain we would find what we needed there. Nope. I would guess that 80% of the fins on display were Seawing Novas, definitely not what he wanted. I was surprised. I looked around the shop and saw in the corner one display featuring a Halcyon BP/W. That surprised me, too, because I knew they had two Halcyon BP/W's in their rental gear. In general, the shop looked like it was focused on the basic OW diver.

    Why was I surprised? The shop had a big sign on the floor advertising it as a GUE Instructor Development Center.

    It was indeed associated with GUE for instructor development, but when it came to selling gear, it apparently felt it needed to focus on what it thought people would buy.

    My friend and I went to another shop in town and found the fins he needed.
     
  8. Eric Sedletzky

    Eric Sedletzky Contributor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: California
    4,616
    5,219
    2014 is pretty late in the game for the span of time I’m talking about. I’ve been watching all this drama unfold in CA since 1999.
     
  9. Julius SCHMIDT

    Julius SCHMIDT Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Alexandra Headland
    424
    250
    Hello I'm wondering how this works thanks

     
  10. birdman27

    birdman27 Contributor

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Santa Rosa, CA
    90
    90
    To bring the conversation back a bit, it is still ingrained in a number of instructors that BP/W or even just back inflate is going to kill you. I am a new assistant instructor, just helped with my first class. This particular instructor told me that a back inflate BCD would never work for teaching because it pushes you forward in the water. Mind you, he said this while I was reclining comfortably in the water with my back inflate... But nothing in standards says I couldn't teach in a BP/W for SSI, as established earlier in this thread

    For my personal diving, I actually use a freedom plate (thanks @Eric Sedletzky ), but got a BCD to teach in, since the shop doesn't sell that particular plate. We don't have any plates in the store, but the owners have no problem with me talking about them or ordering them for anyone (another AI uses a BP/W). For them it is more an issue of storage, and yes the contracts they have with some vendors. One of the owners primarily dives a back inflate and I am going to get him in a BP/W at some point!
     
    JBFG likes this.

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