PADI OW and BPW

[Eric Sedletzky]

EXACTLY! It would be like bike shops refusing to sell mountain bikes, because they upset the sensibilities of the roadie crowd. That never happened. Now, they're all in on the gravel bike revolution.

I think the major difference isn't between local bike shop owners and local dive shop owners. I think that it's the manufacturers. In the bike industry, it's the same manufacturers that make road bikes, mountain bikes and gravel bikes. In the scuba industry, the jacket manufacturers and the BP/W manufacturers are largely completely separate and fundamentally different.

Well in the beginning that was true, mainstream dive gear manufacturers did not have anything to do with BP/W systems because that was considered “technical gear” and the domain of companies like Diverite, OMS, and a little while later Halcyon. Then there were other independents that got on the BP/W party like DSS and a host of others. It wasn’t until years later that Apeks, SP, and Cressi got on the bandwagon. By that time it was too late, the BP/W legacy had already been established as an “alternative” gear choice, property of the internet.

I think we’ve had many conversations in the past about my times going shop to shop introducing my system and the hatred and contempt I experienced regarding the concept of the BP/W.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

. When my students needed to buy their gear (many thousands of dollars worth), they had to choose between waiting for weeks for a special order to get in or getting it in a couple days from an online vendor. This pissed the owner off, as he pointed out that none of my students were buying gear from the shop.

I just shake my head at the owner's attitude.

 

[MichaelMc]

Most current BP/W users bought their unit online.

1) Do we have data that most BP/W users bought their first unit online?
2) If that is because their initial shop did not sell PB/W and they no longer go back there, Hartattack's point is made.

My first BP/W was a Halcyon with OxyCheq wing and I still go back to that shop, though I was not a new diver, just a reemerging one.

 

[jborg]

EXACTLY! It would be like bike shops refusing to sell mountain bikes, because they upset the sensibilities of the roadie crowd. That never happened. Now, they're all in on the gravel bike revolution.

There's some sort of culture difference here between (e.g.) bikers and divers, too. I don't recall who or when, but there was someone who posted here on SB a short anecdote about coming up from the water and meeting a small group of mountain bikers and chatting to them about diving. One of the bikers had some comment about divers being an annoying group of people because they were always being dicks about other people's equipment -- doing it wrong, "you're gonna die", split fins, bp/w, you name it. Mountain bikers were apparently more likely to say "cool bike dude" and move on with life, whereas a fellow diver would be likely to start berating you for the color of your LP hose.

There's an awful lot of equipment fundamentalism in diving, on and off of SB... I'm not surprised it's the same in dive shops.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

1) Do we have data that most BP/W users bought their first unit online?
2) If that is because their initial shop did not sell PB/W and they no longer go back there, Hartattack's point is made.

My first BP/W was a Halcyon with OxyCheq wing and I still go back to that shop, though I was not a new diver, just a reemerging one.

Hard data? Probably not. But through the process of deduction, when 99.9% of shops back in ‘99 - 2000 never even heard of one and there were people beginning to use them, my take away is that they were bought online.
I’m not a newbie at this, I’ve studied this stuff hard. I’m in the business you know.
When did you buy your Halcyon system and what shop? In the early 2000’s there were a few shops in the Bay Area/ Monterey that carried the stuff, but the majority of others did not.

 

[MichaelMc]

When did you buy your Halcyon system and what shop? In the early 2000’s there were a few shops in the Bay Area/ Monterey that carried the stuff, but the majority of others did not.

I got mine at AnyWater the end of 2014, while taking Nitrox from them for a trip and gearing up for the Berkeley AAUS scientific dive program. Today they seem common in Bay/Monterey dive shops though I've not done a survey.

 

[boulderjohn]

I am really puzzling over some of the recent comments, trying to think of reasons for how dive shop's behave without being able to nail it down. I thought I would add an anecdote to the evidence pile for people to contemplate. I am going to be a bit evasive about some details to avoid a fight.

A friend and I were preparing to get on the boat after a dive, and my friend dropped a fin, which dropped quickly into the abyss. Oh, well, he was going to have to buy a new pair of fins. He was by no means a tech diver, but he wanted a stiff blade fin with a large sidewall, features useful with certain kinds of kicks. When the boat got back, we went into the shop that owned the boat, certain we would find what we needed there. Nope. I would guess that 80% of the fins on display were Seawing Novas, definitely not what he wanted. I was surprised. I looked around the shop and saw in the corner one display featuring a Halcyon BP/W. That surprised me, too, because I knew they had two Halcyon BP/W's in their rental gear. In general, the shop looked like it was focused on the basic OW diver.

Why was I surprised? The shop had a big sign on the floor advertising it as a GUE Instructor Development Center.

It was indeed associated with GUE for instructor development, but when it came to selling gear, it apparently felt it needed to focus on what it thought people would buy.

My friend and I went to another shop in town and found the fins he needed.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I got mine at AnyWater the end of 2014, while taking Nitrox from them for a trip and gearing up for the Berkeley AAUS scientific dive program. Today they seem common in Bay/Monterey dive shops though I've not done a survey.

2014 is pretty late in the game for the span of time I’m talking about. I’ve been watching all this drama unfold in CA since 1999.

 

[Julius SCHMIDT]

Hello I'm wondering how this works thanks

That snorkel really comes in handy if you are diving a horse collar though.

 

[birdman27]

To bring the conversation back a bit, it is still ingrained in a number of instructors that BP/W or even just back inflate is going to kill you. I am a new assistant instructor, just helped with my first class. This particular instructor told me that a back inflate BCD would never work for teaching because it pushes you forward in the water. Mind you, he said this while I was reclining comfortably in the water with my back inflate... But nothing in standards says I couldn't teach in a BP/W for SSI, as established earlier in this thread

For my personal diving, I actually use a freedom plate (thanks @Eric Sedletzky ), but got a BCD to teach in, since the shop doesn't sell that particular plate. We don't have any plates in the store, but the owners have no problem with me talking about them or ordering them for anyone (another AI uses a BP/W). For them it is more an issue of storage, and yes the contracts they have with some vendors. One of the owners primarily dives a back inflate and I am going to get him in a BP/W at some point!