PADI Master Diver Certification

[FIXXERVI6]

Exactly....that is just what I am doing,,,,more runs....more diving!! I am one whom does just that---bingo again,,,I practice what I learn,,,dive-dive-dive. Case in point---when you become a trimix cert. diver with whomever you pick (agency) then you can answer those 'so tough' questions you so pride yourself in asking....I could tell you my take all day and you still would not get it. Its great having a so well informed and technically educated and experienced person on the board as you are....we all learn so much. Please educate us all on the world of mixed gas diving...as any good rec. or tech diver I am always open to new creditable information...we all can always learn something new.
And as to cleaning a tank to O2 standards 9you mentioned you are having someone else do your tanks??)....I would think that having read Vances book,,,and being a self DIU that you would clean your own tanks, the divers I dive with at a tech level all clean their own tanks,,including myself,,,,its part of trully being well prepared-trained-read and experienced.

I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy

seriously tho, as for not o2 cleaning myself at this point I'm just too lazy I'm so busy with everything else I really don't have time to mess with it at this time, at some point I'll have a setup for o2 cleaning (tank rack etc to make it easier) but I've been too busy diving and working and running a family, I already devote so much time to diving that I'm lucky I have an understanding wife. I'll let someone else do this for now, Rand has been wanting do this but I think my lazyness rubbed off on him.

In your post your saying that since you o2 clean your own tanks that makes you exprienced? interesting

I have o2 cleaned compressor components, does that make me experienced? oh wait I didnt' have a card when I did it, that just makes me dangerous.

I'm not against training, I'm against training that cuts corners, and I'm against a plastic card in hand makes you "instantly safe"

To take entry level trimix and turn around quickly after a few dives and take advanced trimix in my opinion is cutting corners and is more dangerous than me o2 cleaning a part without a card in hand or performing a trimix dive to depths I do on air already (150) without card in hand, these are my opinions but this is a classic example of what I feel is wrong with the industry as a whole.

But as a non professional its just my opinion and people tend to easily get offended by my opinions.

 

[TxHockeyGuy]

Boy has this thread got off of the original topic . Since we got on the subject of OW classes I thought I'd share a few of my experiences with my OW class.

I have to say that based on much of what I have read on here I had a better OW instructor than most. Our instructor had us do all skills while negative on the platform, which I can understand with new divers. When we weren't doing skills however we were neutral and not kneeling. While they did have us hold onto the railing this does seem to be an improvement over most OW classes I've heard about on here. They had also had run lines out that we had to swim while just holding our fingers around the line, trying not to touch it. By the end of OW my buoyancy wasn't too bad for a new diver, notice I did not say it was good. I took the peak peformance buoyancy class that next summer (earlier this summer) to try to help with my buoyancy. It helped, but honestly it wasn't anything that I couldn't have done on my own and other than the swimming through hula hoops and stacking of washers, there wasn't anything covered that I didn't do in my OW. I've now got buoyancy down to where at least I can control how far off the bottom, stay at any depth I want, and go up or down with breath control. I've still got work to do but all the basics are there.

As far as some of the points are concerned about the Master Diver card and comparisons to college degrees. I certainly understand where they are coming from. I work in IT and I have no degree, I do however have a resume that shows my experience and not having a degree doesn't limit me too much. That simply doesn't work in Scuba, they want you to have that card. As for the "Master Diver" card it is true that there are specialties you can take towards your the card that are useful, especially with a good instructor. But I can think of no dives that would require that card so the value is in the training, not the card.

 

[FIXXERVI6]

Boy has this thread got off of the original topic . Since we got on the subject of OW classes I thought I'd share a few of my experiences with my OW class.

I have to say that based on much of what I have read on here I had a better OW instructor than most. Our instructor had us do all skills while negative on the platform, which I can understand with new divers. When we weren't doing skills however we were neutral and not kneeling. While they did have us hold onto the railing this does seem to be an improvement over most OW classes I've heard about on here. They had also had run lines out that we had to swim while just holding our fingers around the line, trying not to touch it. By the end of OW my buoyancy wasn't too bad for a new diver, notice I did not say it was good. I took the peak peformance buoyancy class that next summer (earlier this summer) to try to help with my buoyancy. It helped, but honestly it wasn't anything that I couldn't have done on my own and other than the swimming through hula hoops and stacking of washers, there wasn't anything covered that I didn't do in my OW. I've now got buoyancy down to where at least I can control how far off the bottom, stay at any depth I want, and go up or down with breath control. I've still got work to do but all the basics are there.

As far as some of the points are concerned about the Master Diver card and comparisons to college degrees. I certainly understand where they are coming from. I work in IT and I have no degree, I do however have a resume that shows my experience and not having a degree doesn't limit me too much. That simply doesn't work in Scuba, they want you to have that card. As for the "Master Diver" card it is true that there are specialties you can take towards your the card that are useful, especially with a good instructor. But I can think of no dives that would require that card so the value is in the training, not the card.

Funny you mention this because I work in IT and I've never thought about it compared to diving, I have been interviewing canidates for a couple posistions I have open and when I look under qualifications and see "degree in computer science" or something like ITT Tech it goes to the trash can without another thought, when I see things that list experience I give it a look, I'd rather hire a young computer nerd that lives and breaths IT even if they have never had a job than a college grad in that field.

 

[amascuba]

Funny you mention this because I work in IT and I've never thought about it compared to diving, I have been interviewing canidates for a couple posistions I have open and when I look under qualifications and see "degree in computer science" or something like ITT Tech it goes to the trash can without another thought, when I see things that list experience I give it a look, I'd rather hire a young computer nerd that lives and breaths IT even if they have never had a job than a college grad in that field.

Can I send you my resume. I'm all experience (5 years) + SANS training.

 

[FIXXERVI6]

Can I send you my resume. I'm all experience (5 years) + SANS training.

Sure, ehornung@hotmail.com

 

[loosebits]

Exactly....that is just what I am doing,,,,more runs....more diving!! I am one whom does just that---bingo again,,,I practice what I learn,,,dive-dive-dive. Case in point---when you become a trimix cert. diver with whomever you pick (agency) then you can answer those 'so tough' questions you so pride yourself in asking....I could tell you my take all day and you still would not get it.

I take the fact that you won't directly answer my original question as to what specific task loading you are referring to is that you don't have an answer. If you did, I'm sure you would have used it to make your point.

Its great having a so well informed and technically educated and experienced person on the board as you are....we all learn so much. Please educate us all on the world of mixed gas diving...as any good rec. or tech diver I am always open to new creditable information...we all can always learn something new.

I've been trying but you love your Zeagle Tech and your plastic c-cards.

And as to cleaning a tank to O2 standards 9you mentioned you are having someone else do your tanks??)....I would think that having read Vances book,,,and being a self DIU that you would clean your own tanks, the divers I dive with at a tech level all clean their own tanks,,including myself,,,,its part of trully being well prepared-trained-read and experienced.

Agreed. I need to learn how to clean my own tanks. I've read the material and with the appropriate equipment, I have no doubt I could do it. I even have a friend that does his and has offered to help me. As I said, I'll be doing it next year.

And which divers "at the tech level", whatever the hell that means, are you referring to? When you use terms like "tech level", "lite-tech", "formal mix dive", etc it makes you sound more like a card collector than a diver. You speak so knowledgeably about how most "tech divers" would look down at me for this or down at me for that but until a few months ago, you were diving singles with a slung pony/deco bottle. You were wanting to do advanced wreck on singles. You thought ice diving should be done with a rope and a harness with your buddy on the surface. You seem to be nothing more than a mouthpiece for the agencies.

Now, please, you mentioned something about needing four more mix dives until you take (or complete, wasn't sure what you meant) adv trimix. How many 150 - 200' mix dives have you gotten since the 17th? I'm sure you'll fulfilled the minimum requirements (hence the four more dives remark) and I'm sure you somehow have reasoned that's good enough since TDI or whomever says it is. Go get your card and tell yourself you are ready to play with the big boys. I'll take it a bit slower and hang out in the kiddie pool a while longer.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

It's amazing to me that people are quick to comdemn folks for doing the very thing that has made diving possible at all levels. At least today, there is information available for people who prefer to learn on their own. In times past, it was learned through trial and error.

The first class I ever attended that taught people to penetrate wrecks was one I taught.

And people failed. And some of those who failed, died. We now tell people, don't do something you aren't trained to do because you might die.

So you are encouraging people to go out and experiment on their own?

I don't see anything wrong with self study. I have taught myself to do a number of things. I like self study with a mentor, I just havn't found a mentor that I can spend sufficient time with.

There are good instructors out there in every segment.... aren't there???

TwoBit

 

[Walter]

I'm not encouraging people to go out and experiment. I'm saying how an adult chooses to learn is completely up to them. I'm also pointing out that today there are more resources are available for people who choose the route of self study than there were to those who developed the courses taught today.

 

[loosebits]

With regards to trimix and mixed gas diving in general, they died working out procedures for bottle handling. They died figuring out decompression schedules. The died figuring how much O2 the body can handle.

I learned the effects of O2 in OW (I had a nice long class). I learned bottle handling in adv nitrox. I learned decompression theory with regards to helium by reading a whole lot.

Many posts ago in this thread, I enumerated classes that taught physical skills that can't simply be learned on ones own without more risk than I'm comfortable with and classes that only teach theory. Breathing a different gas doesn't change anything as far as how you dive. Perhaps you need to watch your ascent rate closer but this is a skill that you should already mastered by the time you start considering decompression diving.

Let's stop talking about trimix since it's such a voodoo to many people. Lets talk nitrox, regular ole FO2 < 40% nitrox.

My TDI nitrox class didn't even require dives because it was 100% theory. Why did I need to get that card? Couldn't I have simply read everything and then go diving? Instead I paid $100, was told everything and only then did I go diving.

A entry-level mix card is the exact same situation. All the physical skills needed to dive He mixtures (bottle handling, buoyancy control, valve shut downs, etc) were taught in prerequisite classes. What you're going to get in a mix class is going to be some lectures (which you can easily learn on your own and I'm sure I've gone above and beyond what would be taught in the average class) and a few dives with an instructor. Well, I've got the theory down and as far as diving deeper, I've not gone deeper with mix than I have with air. I'm sure that will change but instead of an instructor instantly increasing my all-time max depth from 150' to 180' I am going to do it progressively and very slowly over twenty dives, not over 4.

If someone wants to tell me that they learned skills they didn't already know in their mix class then they got cheated earlier in their training progression.

 

[texdiveguy]

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Rand you have serious insecurity issues...I do feel sorry for you---get a handle on your SB 'rage' and insulting ways. You have proven once again in grand style that fact throughout this thread. My only mistake which I accept full responsiblity for is trying to carry out a mature dialog with you. I do wish you well though.