Padi Fees

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If eCerts are too expensive, scan your C-cards and save them to the cloud.

I'd hazard a guess that many operators would accept a scanned copy, if you lost the original. What do other pros say on that?
 
I'm pretty sure my initial post WAS NOT A QUESTION FOR A CERTIFICATION AGENCY. It was a general complaint. Moving it to this forum is a good way of hiding it. Personally I think those looking to get into diving should know up from what various agencies charge. If I had know PADI stood for Put Another Dollar In I would have looked for a different agency for certification!
 
I would accept it. If I had any question I could easily verify online or over the phone.

If eCerts are too expensive, scan your C-cards and save them to the cloud.

I'd hazard a guess that many operators would accept a scanned copy, if you lost the original. What do other pros say on that?
If eCerts are too expensive, scan your C-cards and save them to the cloud.

I'd hazard a guess that many operators would accept a scanned copy, if you lost the original. What do other pros say on that?
 
I did not get my kid a replacement card, but did get her the Rescue Card, and if she wants the other cards updated, she can earn the money on her own.
 
WTF?

PADI make money?!?

... and there I was thinking they were a charity agency... :D

When... oh when.... will these money-grubbing diving agencies just 'get with the program' and start understanding that the modern diver expects everything for free....?!?

People should just switch to a REAL charity agency...... like GUE.... because they're really, really cheap..

Why does a diver training agency need to make money, other than to cover its costs? Let's remind ourselves what PADI stands for - the Professional Association of Diving Instructors. That is a bit of a misnomer; how many professional bodies exist as autocratic money making machines? Most trade associations and professional bodies exist for the purposes of looking after the interests of their members and maintaining standards; generally they are governed by representatives from the industry, who are elected the membership.

I'm not sure why you chose GUE as an example of a charity agency, as according to your signature, you hold an instructor rating for the oldest diver training agency in the world, which still successfully exists as a not-for-profit organisation. I'm not clued up about the constitution of GUE, but I expect the charity bit covers the part of the organisation that creates the syllabi and monitors standards, and the instructors charge their fees to the students. A quick Google search reveals I can do Fundies in the UK for £500, which includes four days of tuition. AOW at my local PADI school costs £260 for two days tuition, so that does not strike me as particularly expensive.

I learned to dive with the local PADI school, and dived with their club after qualifying. After getting the Rescue Diver card, they tried to push me down the DM route, which I resisted. Eventually I had to spell it out and tell them I have no interest in doing so whatsoever. I have no intention of using my own money to pay for a qualification that allows me to work for them for a pittance.

I recently joined BSAC, after years of diving, and it is the best thing I have ever done. I pay £56 a year to BSAC, which gives me membership, which includes a monthly magazine, third party liability insurance cover, and covers their operating costs. As a member, I am able to vote for club officials. In addition, I pay a monthly direct debit payment of just under £15, so around £230 a year.

BSAC instructors work for free in a club environment (but you can pay for courses in their 'Technical Centres'). The only cost a club member pays is expenses and learning materials. Since joining in April this year, I have done a powerboat handling course, oxygen administrator course, Dive Leader, and in a couple of weeks, I'll be doing chart-work and position fixing. On average, the materials cost £30-£40 and are comparable with PADI books. The powerboat course was run over two days from the instructor's holiday home in Wales, where he let us stay. £40 for a two day residential course is not to be sniffed at! By the new year, I'll have paid out less than £300 for those courses; for comparison, the PADI school I learned to dive with charges £595 for the Divemaster course alone.

In addition to this, our members enjoy collective ownership of two RHIBs, a minibus, compressor and mixed gas blending equipment, all housed in a purpose built clubhouse, complete with lecture room, bar, and large function room that regularly hosts guest speakers.

I didn't join BSAC for penny-pinching reasons, and none of it is really free anyway. Yes, the instructors work for free, but the other members all chip in. There are the lads in the boat house looking after the compressors, boats and training kit, there is the lady who runs the bar, there is a club member who joined shortly before me doing excellent work promoting the club, and I have recently been doing the electrical work for the new kitchen in the club-house. I plan on training as an instructor next year, so I''l be putting even more into the club.

Another great thing about BSAC is it is easier to get involved in projects. Many of our members are involved with Seasearch, which is a marine life survey and mapping project. Next year, we are taking the boats to Loch Striven in Scotland to search for a WWII bouncing bomb prototype, with the intention of raising it and donating it to a museum.

At the local PADI school, the staff work for peanuts. Instructors are self-employed, and have to pay their own membership fees, as well as the cost of an annual Health and Safety Executive medical every year, which is a legal requirement for paid instructors. Most of them put in many more hours than what they are actually paid for, and as a consequence, they are not being paid the legal minimum wage. DMs do not get paid a penny, and pay their own travel expenses and entry fees at the training site. The instructors all have day jobs, which include university lecturers, IT professionals and company directors. None of them need the cash and clearly teach as a hobby; it seems odd that people in the UK do this, when they could volunteer in a BSAC branch and take advantage of the club facilities.

The great thing about organisations like BSAC is we are seen as a community, rather than customers. We want more people to dive with us, and we want the training that makes people better divers to be accessible to everybody. Overcharging on admin fees, and trying to sell bulls**t speciality courses and non-qualifications like MSD will not help achieve this.

I have nothing against diving instructors making money. There is a market for full time instructors in resorts, and for specialist areas of diving. For example, I chose to go to Mark Powell for my MOD 2 CCR. Mark Powell is a very highly regarded UK-based instructor, and will be known to many worldwide as the author of 'Deco for Divers'. Mark has made a successful career from diving, and has done so because he is at the top of his game. For technical diving, which carries greater risks, I like many others, am prepared to pay for a professional, as part-time or amateur divers do not have as much time to dedicate to reaching the same standard.
 
Instructors (and Divemasters) who work for free devalues and is a disservice to all instructors. PADI has it's problems and critics. If I owned shares in this private company I'd want them to make as much money as possible, though I don't THINK PADI is a publicly traded company.
 
@Mustard Dave

I think you are understating the true costs of a BSAC course. I should say that I too am a BSAC DL and belong to a BSAC club

When you book a PADI course (exc Pro) everything is included. Course materials, Equipment, Gas etc.

With a BSAC course that's not the case is it? You pay for the course materials, and you need your own equipment. For DL there are 31 dives plus 7 OW lessons - all requiring gas

My club, charge an annual dive membership which is equivalent to £550 For this (top tier) you get unlimited diving on the club boats and gas (we can dive every weekend and even during the week. (if you have time off work) Other members get free gas but pay £20 for a boat trip - if we need to go outside the club for gas then that's £6 per nitrox fills

Along with the membership, we like you have a club bar which brings in cash and run additional social functions to generate money because membership money alone doesn't cover the running of the club (rent utilities, gas O2 supplies and parts for compressors and boats and professional service on equipment when out of scope of the club's members.

So the average member over the course of the year will probably "donate" almost as much again on top of their time and effort.

The true cost of a DL course (exc club membership)

BSAC membership £56
Course Materials (course pack Nitrox and Air tables) £110
Gas for 38 Dives £228
Boat fees for 19 trips £400

Total Dive leader fees £794 With time donated by instructors

A student may not pay these fees directly, but they will pay them in some way...


By comparison (here) a PADI DM course, inc course materials is £660 - so it's cheaper.

People can commercial dive here. For a 2 tank trip inc gear its £90 where they turn up, get fitted for their gear, dive and leave. No washing of kit, no towing of boats and cleaning afterwards etc etc. Now they don't get to choose sites nor who they dive with etc etc, but for most normal divers it's what they seek. BSAC requires a level of commitment from its members

It's very hard to do an Apples to Apples comparison between BSAC and the other commercial organisations

(I love BSAC btw and am glad I dive with them)
 
Depends how the course is costed. . . I charge daily tuition . . . dives and gas etc depends on what's used.

PADI only state MINIMUM course requirements. They don't involve themselves in course pricing, nor limit the duration or quality of training

The fact that most PADI dive centers follow a similar pricing and course structure/quality model is entirely determined by customer demand and what best profits the owners of individual dive centers.

Demand dictates supply. . . . and the vast majority of diving students demand quick, cheap, convenient and easy training.

. . . and then people complain there training wasn't exceptional . . . or moan about the cost of something . . . It's hypocritical.

Training with me. . . I DO offer OW and AOW etc. . . but you pay for training . . . and have to EARN certification. Few cm do that in the bare minimum timescale. So it costs MORE. . . . more days, more dives. . . To reach a high standard .

In a decade teaching freelance, I've never had a novice diver book training. I get inquiries every day. . . But the price deters people. . . They opt for quick, cheap and easy. . . AND THEN they'll moan on Scubaboard about the quality of tuition. Go figure. . . LOL

If people are cynical of PADI training . . . quoting the old 'Put Another Dollar In' line, then perhaps they shouldn't have searched for the cheapest, crappiest training provider to "get a card". . . and should have searched for quality tuition that would have reflected a REAL value on investment . . . . Maybe. . .

PADI isn't a charity. It's a profit making business. It succeeded in making diving tuition cheap, convenient and affordable for a vast number of people (28 million certs issued).. and empowered people to develop dive centers in every desirable scuba location in the world .
 
@Diving Dubai

At our club, air fills are free, but members are asked to drop 50p in a tin each time we get a fill - this would be £6 from a shop or dive site. We also get O2 and He at cost. For boats, we pay our share of the fuel and a small wear and tear fee.

The PADI outfit I learned with only provide fills on OW courses; you pay for your own gas on AOW and beyond. DM candidates are expected to have their own kit, although on occasion, they have supplied it at an additional cost.

Any serious diver is going to have to buy kit whatever their agency, otherwise they'll be paying in the long run for rental kit.

There are seven open water lessons as you say, but they don't have to be done in seven separate dives. I did DO 5,6&7 in one dive (also note much of this is surface skills), followed by DO 1,2&3 (DSMB use, and dive leading). I did DO 4 (shot recovery) on a club trip.

My course pack wasn't £110 - it was closer to £40. I don't own a set of BSAC 88 tables as I don't plan to use them - I borrowed them for the exam. My BSAC membership fees to date, and up until June next year are £30, as I took advantage of the discounted membership at the dive show. I'll pay £56 a year afterwards though, as the offer is only open to new members.

I think you may have got your numbers wrong for the 38 dives - I'm assuming you counted seven training dives, 24 qualifying dives (31) and seven qualifying experience dives (38). I have already covered the training dives. Note there are seven types of experience dives, but you only need five. These can include some of the qualifying dives from the previous list. This is all irrelevant though, because as I already had them logged. For somebody progressing all the way through the system from novice, they are going to easily log these dives from club trips if they are an active diving member. Other than the seven training dives, most of the qualification is earned through normal club activity.

You are correct about club funds, but you have to also consider the bigger purpose of the club is to run dive trips and house equipment. We have a very good set-up, and therefore bigger overheads, but it can be done for less; a club near where I live doesn't have a club house. They meet in the local rugby club socially, and use a community swimming pool. They have a small lock-up garage for the boat and kit.

I assume the 19 boat trips is based on 38 dives, doing two a day. Not all the dives need to be from a boat (only six do), but most DL trainees will have logged these previously. Note that a PADI DM will be in the same boat, as you need 60 logged dives to be signed off.

As you say, it's not an apples with apples comparison. For a dedicated diver, BSAC is much less expensive, but somebody that goes to a resort once or twice a year, it makes sense to train with a commercial school. Commercial schools don't require commercial agencies though; BSAC courses can be taught by 'Technical Centres', which as you will know, are privately owned commercial dive schools, just the same as PADI dive centres are. The only difference is the agency affiliation.
 
Naive talk about PADI. They're currently owned by Providence Equity who recently put them on the block for about $1B. They were previously owned by Lincolnshire Management. This is a giant profit making entity - not some kind of benevolent diver loving organization giving away free certs. Get over it.
 

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