SCUBA shop that will issue be an AOW card after a few days diving?

[hammet]

In my humble opinion, it is much like scuba shops refusing to fill cylinders with VIP from competing shops or no sticker at all.

Then throwing the BS line that not VIPing the cylinder is against the law, or even against their insurance company's policies.

I was insured for over 20 years. There is no such thing as a 60 foot limit on open water divers, or a requirement for AOW to dive from a boat. There are unscrupulous dive shops who think that they need to screw the diver by making them get a VIP and an advanced card, and aren't honest enough to take the heat for the decision themselves.

I think for big cattle boat operators (like Beaches in my own experience) it does gives a way to maximize the experience for divers who don't have to deal with rookie issues like ear clearing and lousy weighting. So it has its advantages.

 

[Wookie]

I think for big cattle boat operators (like Beaches in my own experience) it does gives a way to maximize the experience for divers who don't have to deal with rookie issues like ear clearing and lousy weighting. So it has its advantages.

I agree that the policy may have some value to the operator.

My point is that the operator should own the policy instead of handing it off to some nameless underwriter. I would venture a guess that 99.99% of divers have no idea who the remaining underwriters are anyway. It may well be that the dive operators are doing their best to protect the remaining insurance underwriters, because every consortium that leaves the game only makes the rates go up.

 

[Ez E]

Well I for one am looking forward to my NAUI AOW classes. One because I get an excuse to dive. And two because I feel I really need it.

 

[Still Kicking]

Well I for one am looking forward to my NAUI AOW classes. One because I get an excuse to dive. And two because I feel I really need it.

Scuba is a journey not a destination.

Take the class, get as much out of it as you can, enjoy the ride!

 

[Altamira]

I run into this rule every winter while I am in Florida, where all the shops I know of require AOW for certain dives. You can't say you will be above 60 feet. You are either on the boat for the dive or you aren't. These dives are all to wrecks, so there is nothing to see but water above 60 feet. I have never seen that rule invoked on a dive where there is really any option for a shallower dive.

So let me ask a question of the people that say shops should use a diver's experience instead. How would you make it work?

On a typical dive I experience in Florida, divers sign up for the dive ahead of time, usually online. Some of them (including me) are known commodities. They are in the system already. Many are not. They are vacationers who are in town for a week at most. They show up at the shop and show a certification card. They get whatever gear they need and get on the boat.

So how would it work for them if you required a certain level of experience for the dive instead of a simple AOW card? Would some employee (let's say a guy named Fred) have the job of determining the worthiness of each diver's experience? Would divers have to show Fred their logbook? If they show a paper logbook, would Fred have to leaf through it to judge if the dives are legitimate and not faked? If they have a computer logbook, would they have to bring in a laptop to show their experience? If they show a dive computer log, would Fred have to figure out a way to make sure it isn't a borrowed computer or one purchased off of eBay? What if they didn't know they would need to prove their experience and didn't bring any logbook? What if they do not log their dives? What if they have hundreds of dives, but none of them are in the last 30 years?

@boulderjohn. I was not addressing dive boats that require AOW because they are going to deep wrecks or have a complex dive scenario/profile. I certainly believe dive ops should set whatever limits they choose for the dives, and if I really want to join a particular dive that requires AOW, I would get the cert or hire a private DM if that was acceptable to the dive op. However, an AOW requirement seems to be very fluid in many dive situations. I have been on dive boats throughout the world whose policy requires AOW to dive below 60' even on a reef that bottoms out at 75-100' (their boat--their rules), but then the DMs take the dive group deep after a few minutes at 60' when they have had time to evaluate the divers' competence. In those situations, I applaud the DM/Instructor for using common sense. A couple years ago, on a cruise stop at Fakarava, we had five divers, four AOW, and me (OW) from the cruise ship on a two tanker to dive the north pass. AOW was required for the dives. Dive #1 was a checkout dive outside the pass required for all divers. All five of us were cleared for dive #2 through the pass, with a pretty brisk current that day. My dive was a blast, no muss, no fuss, but I found it humorous that all four of our AOW divers finished the dive holding hands with the two trailing DMs, and the after dive briefing sounded like it was a first class cat herding event with the AOW foursome. I thanked the dive op for letting me do the dive with just OW, but it also reinforced my opinion of the downside of using a cert level as the main determining factor as to whether a dive can be done or not. I certainly am not God's gift to the dive world, but if I was an Instructor/DM, I would rather have me in the dive group than 100% of the newly minted AOW divers, with just five dives post-OW cert.

 

[FishWatcher747]

I thanked the dive op for letting me do the dive with just OW, but it also reinforced my opinion of the downside of using a cert level as the main determining factor as to whether a dive can be done or not. I certainly am not God's gift to the dive world, but if I was an Instructor/DM, I would rather have me in the dive group than 100% of the newly minted AOW divers, with just five dives post-OW cert.

If you think those 4 AOW divers were bad imagine if that dive op had 4 brand new OW divers to deal with.

At least the 4 AOW divers had 5 more dives with an instructor, did the online learning and had to meet a bunch of standards to pass AOW.

It is tough being a beginner no matter what but getting 5 more dives with an instructor is way better for a beginner.

 

[.../---/-.../-..-]

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[wetb4igetinthewater]

A diver with 200 dives? So what? Go get some diving experience.

To be fair, he might be more qualified than some instructors!

 

[34109411]

Been diving 20 years, 200+ dives. Running into an issue with people requiring AOW cards. I don't want to take a course to learn to "night dive" when I've already done it 20 times or wreck dive etc given what I've already done. Where can I find a shop to dive with for a few days and pay for the cert fee? Sick of the PADI shakedown scam such a terrible organization. 50 USD for a " digital card". The grift in this business is so frustrating. Don't get me wrong I get the purpose but back in the day your logbook was what counted not whether some 21 year old dive instructor gave you a piece of plastic.

i ve never been ask a card either for night dive or wreck dive. Change dive shop !

 

[waxrash]

Been diving 20 years, 200+ dives. Running into an issue with people requiring AOW cards. I don't want to take a course to learn to "night dive" when I've already done it 20 times or wreck dive etc given what I've already done. Where can I find a shop to dive with for a few days and pay for the cert fee? Sick of the PADI shakedown scam such a terrible organization. 50 USD for a " digital card". The grift in this business is so frustrating. Don't get me wrong I get the purpose but back in the day your logbook was what counted not whether some 21 year old dive instructor gave you a piece of plastic.

I think most has been said. Here is what you are asking me to do.

I pay around $1000 per year in personal liability insurance. I sign a contract with a training agency and agree to their training standards. I work for a LDS that has its own standards.

If you die and some attorney notes that you didn’t follow a clearly defined standard, they will ask for the records. My training agency will pull the docs I submitted for you saying that you met all the standards that I agreed to.

Once they note that I didn’t actually make you do the class they will not stand behind me.

Once my insurance providers gets word of that, they won’t stand behind me.

So the risk for me is that your surviving relatives now own my house, car, all my dive gear, and savings. My wife and kids are homeless.

No way in hell am I signing up for that because you think you deserve it.

When I produce your log book to the judge and say “look judge he said he’s done this before”, I’m pretty sure the judge will award the damages.