Padi Fees

[DustyC]

No, if the shop doesn't do PADI they can't check. At least it used to be that way.

Anyone can check

 

[archer1960]

Anyone can check

If they have the requisite internet access, which wouldn't be a given in some parts of the world.

 

[DevonDiver]

Serious questions:

1. How do non-pro divers imagine that PADI earns revenue as a business?

2. What do non-pro divers imagine are PADI's operating costs and overheads?

3. How do non-pro divers imagine the relationship between PADI, dive centers and instructors?

 

[archer1960]

Serious questions:

1. How do non-pro divers imagine that PADI earns revenue as a business?

2. What do non-pro divers imagine are PADI's operating costs and overheads?

3. How do non-pro divers imagine the relationship between PADI, dive centers and instructors?

1. Certification fees, primarily. I don't think replacing lost cert cards should be one; card replacement should be at (at most) cost, IMO.

2. Administrative overhead, insurance and legal costs; maybe some research on injuries and deaths.

3. Monitoring and (hopefully) enforcing standards. When I got my AOW, PADI sent me a questionnaire that asked about the course, including exactly what we did. One that sticks in my mind was that they asked if our deep dive was to a max of 100', to which I answered no, we went to 102.

 

[DustyC]

1. Certification fees, primarily. I don't think replacing lost cert cards should be one; card replacement should be at (at most) cost, IMO.

2. Administrative overhead, insurance and legal costs; maybe some research on injuries and deaths.

3. Monitoring and (hopefully) enforcing standards. When I got my AOW, PADI sent me a questionnaire that asked about the course, including exactly what we did. One that sticks in my mind was that they asked if our deep dive was to a max of 100', to which I answered no, we went to 102.

1. That's what gets me. The processing fee to PADI for a new cert and card is about half of what a replacement card cost.

 

[DevonDiver]

1. That's what gets me. The processing fee to PADI for a new cert and card is about half of what a replacement card cost.

Whilst it varies by region, the cost of certs is often bundled with the cost of the associated manual. Typically, dive centers get an account 'credit', or paper application form, to process a PIC with each course manual they buy.

You have to sell a manual with each course... So it keeps that initial cost down. Standalone credits are less economical to purchase.

Maybe some shops are 'separating' the cost of manual and c-card fee? To give some impression of 'added value'??

Or perhaps some shops are adding a 'processing' surcharge to the cost of replacement cards.... if they're the ones ordering it for you.

Shops are, after all, permitted to resale PADI products (manuals, certifications etc) at whatever price they deem fit. It makes sense that this cost should cover staff processing time, shipping (manuals, certification processing envelops etc), and the need for capital to be invested in stock.

 

[2airishuman]

Lastly, PADI doesn't force anyone to replace cards. In fact, all PADI operations can use dive check to verify certification if someone forgets their card, so ..... if you don't want to spend the money you don't have to.

There are many situations where a physical card is required or may possibly be required to dive. Those would include situations where no internet access is available and operators who are unwilling to check online for whatever reason. There is also the possibility that temporary technical problems of one kind or another will prevent a check from being made. Particularly when diving with a new operator in a destination that involves travel, it seems unwise to depend upon the operator being able to look up the certification.

My point is, don't demonize a company for earning profit because you think the price is to high. You have done your part by choosing SDI instead. Once the price reaches an unfair level, so will the majority, and the price will correct. That is their business model - it is meant to make money, and it will work for them (or not).

The problem here is that the charges are exorbitant compared to the service provided, and compared to the charges that other places that issue ID cards of one kind or another charge for replacement. That is compounded by the fact that there is no opportunity to shop elsewhere, since only PADI can issue replacement ID cards for courses taken through PADI.

What I meant is, that you literally have to be with PADI to work in some regions as they practically have a monopoly in some places. That's a advantage if you will. For people who don't wanna work, there is no advantage in getting padi training.

There are also some areas of the country where there isn't a practical choice of agency. We have maybe 15 dive shops in Minnesota. Only one offers open water courses through an agency other than PADI.

Serious questions:

1. How do non-pro divers imagine that PADI earns revenue as a business?

2. What do non-pro divers imagine are PADI's operating costs and overheads?

3. How do non-pro divers imagine the relationship between PADI, dive centers and instructors?

I don't know what the revenue split is between PADI and the dive centers and instructors. I don't like hidden fees. Being required to purchase an expensive PADI logbook to complete a course, or paying an exorbitant fee for issuing or reissuing a c-card, are examples of hidden fees.

 

[Charles2]

A replacement card for NAUI is $45. At $44, PADI is a bargain. Didn't think I'd ever say that!

 

[kris@bulldogg.ca]

Wow....there seems to be a lot of people who are very passionate about PADI fees.

For the record, I have no personal interest in defending any agency or their rates. I am simply pointing out that the SJW's (Scuba Justice Warriors) that have arbitrarily decided that their perceived value of a certification is more justified than what is being charged by any agency are at best being naive.

PADI charges whatever they decide for anything they decide. All of the members on every forum world wide can dislike it or argue, but the simple fact is, that their card IS worth what they charge because people pay it.

If it was not..... no one would buy it and PADI would cease to exist.

I don't know what the actual percentage is of annual dive certifications that PADI owns in the global marketplace, but I believe it is a high number (even despite their greedy prices. LOL).

So I would pose the question..... why, if it is not worth it, do they sell so many?

Let's recap.....

Question: What determines the value of PADI's certification card or e-card?

Answer: It is worth what the majority of people will pay.

Conclusion: More people pay the fee than complain about it, so PADI's pricing is successful.​

Perhaps PADI should raise the price until they start seeing their numbers drop off......they could be leaving money on the table.

Huh? No it's not. The bottling plant has actual cost. Padi already makes their money by selling overpriced books, membership fees, worthless specialty course for boat diving and such. A bottle of beer or water has actual value... the membership and the card doesn't. Training itself has value, but that's direcly paid for when you take it.

Eitherway, I would not recommend PADI on anyone, unless they wanna be a freelance instructor in Thailand or something of that sort. PADI has advatanges but not for people who dive as a hobby.

P.S. Bennno - PADI has ACTUAL COSTS too. they may not be for bottles, but they exist. Again, you help prove my point..... PADI doesn't need to adjust their prices or operations because you wont recommend them, or because you think their boat diving specialty is worthless. They are plenty successful without your recommendation, and I assume if they still offer it, that the boat diving specialty is selling, and therefor has worth. I hope you are not being offended, I am very much enjoying the conversation.

 

[DevonDiver]

1. Certification fees, primarily. I don't think replacing lost cert cards should be one; card replacement should be at (at most) cost, IMO.

We'd all like after-sales support to be free.... for every product we buy.... wouldn't we?

But... the real world intrudes on such pipedreams

Perhaps PADI should offer a c-card insurance scheme?

2. Administrative overhead, insurance and legal costs; maybe some research on injuries and deaths.

300+ staff in regional processing offices around the world. Globally accessible databases, professional and public websites on multiple servers. Training consultants. Educational consultants. Course designers. QA staff. Paper and digital manuals design, development and publication. Training video filming and production. eLearning design and implementation. Translation of materials into all major languages. Marketing and advertising globally across a spectrum of mediums. Corporate legal liability protection. Regional legal representation. Regional managers. Country managers. ScubaEarth social media. Project Aware charity. Sponsorship programmes. Publishing a bi-annual professional trade magazine for instructors/centers. Regional training updates and academies for pros and shop owners.

Setting up a system for ordering eCerts also cost money. As did implementing that system to use existing database. IT people don't work for free.... In fact they earn a hell of a lot more than any dive instructor ever would.

Balance those costs against the limited demand for eCerts and work out a cost per unit, plus profit. It is, after all, a purely convenience option for customers...

Even for plastic C-cards... These have to be shipped regionally....across borders and overseas. Pricing for shipping has to be consistent regionally. The costs have to be spread...

Then consider how the cards are printed. PADI issue more than a million C-cards a year. You can't do that on a $1000 home office card printing machine... And PADI need those printers in each regional office....and staff to run them... and post them... And...

In return.... PADI recoup revenue... and satisfy shareholders.... only by selling manuals and certifications.

But people expect that for free?

3. Monitoring and (hopefully) enforcing standards. When I got my AOW, PADI sent me a questionnaire that asked about the course, including exactly what we did. One that sticks in my mind was that they asked if our deep dive was to a max of 100', to which I answered no, we went to 102.

Yep... PADI dive centers and instructors are actually also PADI customers. We buy materials and course syllabus to sell onwards to our customers.... the student divers.

PADI provides Quality Assurance to ensure their syllabus is implemented properly by instructors.. and member dive centers follow specified safety and service provision standards. They safeguard their product value.

PADI issue (re: 'sell') students with certifications as a 'proof of training' according to their syllabus being implemented by the instructor. C-cards aren't licenses... they can't be renewed, withdrawn etc.... they merely commemorate a satisfactory attendance on a given course.

It can be a plastic c-card, an electronic certificate or a paper certification to hang on my wall. PADI sell all of those.

The scuba industry accept that 'proof of training' for fun diving, or as prerequisites for further training, because it lessens their liability.

So... You pay for a course.. and you pay for a proof of completing that course. The deal is done. If you subsequently lose, destroy or misplace that proof of training, why should PADI replace it for free, or at cost?

In any other industry or retail scenario.. If I buy something.... and I lose or break it... then I'd be a fool to expect the producer to replace it for zero profit... or for an individual vendor to process that replacement for no financial return.

Again... would you wish to purchase a warranty for your c-card?

Why should the scuba industry be held to a different standard to any other retailer??