PADI Deep Diver Standards

[Karibelle]

Must have missed it, sorry. I don't really hang on every word here, I'm sure you understand.

Of course I understand. What is a bit confusing to me is that while this time, you didn't miss it, you still didn't answer it. Instead of reading too much into that, I'll just ask again: What agency do you teach through?

I used to teach for Padi-licious, but after way too many dealings with them I decided they really weren't doing much for diver training that I see as worthy at all. And they certainly never showed up with the right decisions on the issues I've dealt with them on, and I do mean never. Padi knows exactly what they are doing and are masters at what they do, however, they couldn't really care a less about anything else.

So of course I've chatted with Padi QA about specifics I don't know how many times. They don't seem to have the same idea as myself and others do about their reckless abandon. It's not a point of them not knowing the dives, shop, instructor, student, date, course, yada yada, I pretty much draw them a map to the problems, both specific and in general, as many here have.

The thing with a QA investigation is that your involvement ends once you've provided them with dives, shop, instructor, student, date, course, yada yada. The fact that aren't privvy to what happened next means nothing. It certainly doesn't mean that nothing happened.

Will any of this sink in to those that fund their nonense? I doubt it, but I remain hopeful. You need to appreciate that Padi doesn't really respond to anything at all.

I understand where my involvement in QA process begins and ends. I know it's frustrating to not be party to "the next step" once I've ratted out my colleagues, but I do understand that that's how it works. Do you?

kari

 

[Thalassamania]

The thing with a QA investigation is that your involvement ends once you've provided them with dives, shop, instructor, student, date, course, yada yada. The fact that aren't privvy to what happened next means nothing. It certainly doesn't mean that nothing happened.

Trust me, the same incompetent nincompoop is there doing the same stupid and dangerous thing the next week and the next week and the next week on to the indefinite future.

I understand where my involvement in QA process begins and ends. I know it's frustrating to not be party to "the next step" once I've ratted out my colleagues, but I do understand that that's how it works. Do you?

Trying to separate a dangerous fool from his victims is hardly "ratting out a colleague." Such folks are not my colleagues. Are they yours?

 

[Karibelle]

Trying to separate a dangerous fool from his victims is hardly "ratting out a colleague." Such folks are not my colleagues. Are they yours?

I actually thought he was a mentor. Then the heads butted, the newbies refused to back down, and then the ratting out began. He is no longer a colleague.

As you say, it is possible that this "nincompoop" is still doing the same things as before... however, it is no longer on my conscience - at least not until I witness it again.

Do you think that making a QA report is worth it? Your two statements leave it unclear to me as to whether or not you think that is a function of a "dive professional." How does your agency deal with this? Presumably, they are much better at it than PADI is; I'm curious if you can elaborate on the difference in process.

kari

 

[Thalassamania]

Do you think that making a QA report is worth it?

My experience with PADI leads me to believe that it is a complete waste of time.

Your two statements leave it unclear to me as to whether or not you think that is a function of a "dive professional."

I think that calling anyone whose expected working life is less that three years a professional is sort of like “mastery,” … well … let’s not go there again, but you understand what I’m saying?

How does your agency deal with this?

I don’t know, I do not “have” and agency. I use various agencies for the convenience of my students, but I reject the very concept of “your agency.” If you are asking do I know how NAUI operates, the answer is variable. I’ve seen it work well and poorly depending on who was Training Director at the time.

Presumably, they are much better at it than PADI is; I'm curious if you can elaborate on the difference in process.

All I can speak to is the occasional difference in observed result.

 

[Karibelle]

My experience with PADI leads me to believe that it is a complete waste of time.
I think that calling anyone whose expected working life is less that three years a professional is sort of like “mastery,” … well … let’s not go there again, but you understand what I’m saying?
I don’t know, I do not “have” and agency. I use various agencies for the convenience of my students, but I reject the very concept of “your agency.” If you are asking do I know how NAUI operates, the answer is variable. I’ve seen it work well and poorly depending on who was Training Director at the time.
All I can speak to is the occasional difference in observed result.

I use "dive professional" to mean someone who has an instructor level of dive knowledge, and who could reasonably be expected to be in a position of instruction over a student. So in PADI terms, a divemaster or above. I do understand what you're saying, but can you answer the question given the definition above?

As to QA reporting being a complete waste of time, maybe, maybe not. I'll need a lot more experience before I can make that judgement for myself. And despite your repeated posts that sound like you want everyone else to defer to your vast experience, I won't do that. My agreement with my association specifies what I am required to do in certain situations, and so I'll do that. I'm one of those sorts who believes that if you don't vote, you can't complain. So when I don't agree, changing things from the inside seems like a good approach to at least try.

As for not having an agency, maybe I'll ask "which organization issues the certifications for the majority of your students?"

I don't want to come right out and say you sound pompous, but from what I can see, it might be that the only instructor here you feel is worthy of any respect is you. Or maybe a small handful of others who have decided to not teach with any agency. Somewhere though, there is an agency involved, unless there is a thalassamania certification card (which there may well be; I don't know everything).

You claiming to reject the concept of "your agency" puts you in a sweet spot, doesn't it? You get to come here and complain about agency related issues without ever being held accountable, nor having any responsibility to help things improve.

kari

 

[Steve R]

The thing with a QA investigation is that your involvement ends once you've provided them with dives, shop, instructor, student, date, course, yada yada. The fact that aren't privvy to what happened next means nothing. It certainly doesn't mean that nothing happened.

I understand where my involvement in QA process begins and ends. I know it's frustrating to not be party to "the next step" once I've ratted out my colleagues, but I do understand that that's how it works. Do you?

kari

My dear, you don't really know much at all yet. It seems to me you're a fairly new instructor, and one that more than likely only has Padi training, front to back, which is actually the biggest problem here.

The issue here is you don't know what you don't know. You've been kept in the dark because that's what they do best.

I can indeed see that nothing has been done with respect to most of these cases in question, purely because in a lot of cases I know people who know people, and we have ways of finding out if anything responsible and substantial has been done.

Given the amount of complaints lodged, it would be evident at least once in a while. You really need to step out and get some experience in this area before you speak too loudly about how you think it works.

So this is how I know, sorry if you don't believe that, but it certainly doesn't make what you're saying correct at all. Their certainly is a vacuum of info, but things do get out. The fact that countless people here have been stating the same things time and time again to Padi, but the standards with respect to these issues remain the same, is also a pracatical gauge of measuring what the agency is or is not doing.

As Thal says, making these reports is indeed a waste of time for the most part, but I did it anyway as I know it to be the right things to do.

Again as Thal states, the very concept Padi uses is flawed beyond belief from an instructional stand point.

I'm sure the whining will continue, and nothing will be accomplished. I've seen your type before and all I can really say is I think you need to get out and dive more oftern with folks with various other 'concepts' and try and understand what we're saying here.

There's a few people in Alberta that take a view of diving in a way I doubt you've been exposed to before. Maybe one of them will see this post and invite you to go for a dive or two or three with them.

I really think it would be a worthwhile thing for you to do, and would stem this nonsense. If you could do this and get back to us with your thoughts, that would be great.

Thanks.

 

[Karibelle]

Well, Steve, one thing I do know is that you can't answer a simple question. Why is that?

kari

 

[JeffG]

Well, Steve, one thing I do know is that you can't answer a simple question. Why is that?

kari

Well, you could just check his profile, follow his homepage and find out who he is and who/what training he does.

But since you are unable to do that...here's a hint....TDI

 

[Steve R]

Well, Steve, one thing I do know is that you can't answer a simple question. Why is that?

kari

excellent post.

I'm here to discuss the poor concept of Padi deep diver training.

I could discuss a lot of issues with a lot of other agencies that I too teach for. I'm happy to do so.

Start a new thread and ask away. If I can provide any first hand facts for you, I will, just as I have done here with Padi.

I am at your disposal, but I fail to see what your statements have to do with Padi and their deep diver standards, and their refusal to stem the nonsense when many of their current and former instructor have shown them to be full of problems, as is shown weekly, if not daily here on SB alone.

regards

 

[Steve R]

Well, you could just check his profile, follow his homepage and find out who he is and who/what training he does.

But since you are unable to do that...here's a hint....TDI

lol, that's too much work for her.

It doesn't surprise me to see people have no ambition nor gumption for even three mouse clicks anymore...lol. Ya gotta draw them a map for everything.

thanks Jeff, now invite her out to dive, and we're all sorted out Whad'ya say brother?