'Open Water' only sidemount BCDs: Your opinions?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I don't really see a benefit to Lamar's approach. The majority of new sidemount divers currently are cross-overs from BM at tech levels. Those people have ingrained skills routing the long-hose from the right hip area and around, with a short hose from the left on bungee. i.e. A typical hogarthian reg set-up. It makes sense to preserve that capability - and there is vast support for it's use, based on pros and cons. I'm not sure why sidemount would change that formula...

Where did you get this from?? Less than half of my sidemount students are crossovers from backmount tech levels. Actually most of them are just getting into tech and prefer to go straight into sidemount rather than doing backmount first.


I think you're making a big deal out of something that isn't a big deal. I don't see a problem with top mounted LPIs. I've had cave students that preferred to keep the LPI in the top mounted position. I personally don't care how my students rig their sidemount systems as long as it's not dangerous and they can trim out. And I don't see any danger in having an LPI route off the top. As I stated before, when I make an ascent in OW I do so in a vertical position so I can see where I'm going and make sure I'm not ascending into anything. With the cave model LT and sms50, this isn't possible. There is no dump near the top. Putting an LPI at the top solves this issue for anyone who isn't interested in diving in overheads. Could they have just put a dump valve on top and kept the LPI on the bottom? Sure. But you can switch the LPI and dump valve on the OW models.

Sidemount is still evolving. We need to keep our minds open to the different ideas that are out there. Stifling these ideas does nothing for the sport. I really don't think these new rigs have anything to do with bad instructors. They are simply a different approach to sidemount diving.
 
Never mind. Actually it is not about SM or BM setup, but about the integrated LPI/octo. I have never used an Air2 and can just imagine how it works. I wonder, how could I dump through an Air2 if my OOA buddy is breathing from it?

Your buddy never breathes from your Air-2. You do.

This isn't a philosophical point, it simply doesn't bend that way or reach that far. In any case, all the buttons including the release valve work just fine when you're breathing from it.

flots.
 
OW only = don't waste your money.
 
Glad you posted that since it brings into focus a question I have. Like many OW divers who've never tried side-mount, I typically ascend and descend vertically; on ascent I hold my low pressure inflator high & release air as needed to keep the rate slow and buoyancy where I want it.

I'm guessing most side-mount divers ending dives don't maintain a horizontal hover all the way to the surface. How easily does the 'cave style' model vent as you ascend vertically?

Richard.

Most of my open water diving is done in cold water in the Northeast. I find that my feet get really cold if I'm in a head's up position, and it makes you keep a death grip on the line which can cause some other problems. If I keep gas in my feet and use a jon line, I stay a whole lot warmer.

As for where to put the inflator, I don't really think it matters all that much. My old OC "Rennaker plate" style rig has the wing flipped over with the elbow inside and the hose routed under my arm, with a pull dump on the bottom, which I really prefer. My sidemount CCR harness has it swapped with the pull string, as does the Hollis SMS that I recently got ahold of. That works fine too but you really need to keep an eye on that string because it will wear out and break. When you replace it, leave it a couple of inches long or it's going to leak when you clip up a couple of stage bottles!

So you are saying it's up to the new OW SM user to know they have to modify a brand new rig because the way it comes to them is straight out unsafe? And this is a better solution for those divers than the top mounted LPI's they are used to why? So far, all I see are problems set up in using a system that in this application only solves an imaginary problem.

Your sarcasm falls short of the mark though as I am the guy who could dive with a bleach bottle and a pocket full of rocks (and I could build the bleach bottle) but what we are discussing is the pros and cons of top vs bottom LPI's. My thought was that the store bought Hollis rig had a con right off the get go.

Hey Dale you know I never dive anything "out of the box". I'd modify most of the sidemount rigs in one way or another to suit my diving style and body type. It doesn't make them "unsafe" . . . in fact, I think a lot of the things I would change are designed that way with "safety" in mind (like keeping a diver in a more heads up position on the surface).
 
Last edited:
I think your money would be far better spent getting some real (cave) sidemount instruction.

While the cavers probably don't like the "consumerization" of their territory, side-mount with two smaller tanks is perfect for open water divers because it's light, stable, easier on the knees if you hand off the tanks before climbing into the boat, and provides 100% redundancy in the event of a failure. Even in the event of complete stupidity. If you run out of air because you weren't paying attention on side-mount, chances are excellent the other tank still has plenty of air for a safe no-deco ascent.

Two 45's on side-mount is much safer than one 80 on a backmount.

flots.
 
I think your money would be far better spent getting some real (cave) sidemount instruction.

But if I buy one of the cave model BCDs instead then it's OK? I know that is not what you intended to convey, but in the context of this thread that is how it comes across. We aren't discussing the merits of training, we are talking about the location of a LPI inflator house.

I'm still curious why GAdiver thinks "OW only = waste of time!" I'm hoping it's because he has tried both and actually has some insightful first hand experiance to have come to that conclusion. Hopefully it's not just more of the same "It's not cave specific, therefore it must suck!" mantra.

I now have one of both types of BCD. I have the original SMS 50 with the LPI around the side that I use, and now a Nomad LT Blue Water for the wife because she was adamant about having the LPI over the shoulder. I can't really compare the two since I haven't been in the water yet with the Nomad, but I do have some initial reservations with the over the shoulder LPI. The first is that it lays on top of the left should D-rings and I can see it possibly getting in the way. The other is if I move the LPI to the bottom dump location and move the dump to the top, then I've lost the ability to dump from the bottom of the rig. But I'll only know for sure when I can compare the two in the water.
 
While the cavers probably don't like the "consumerization" of their territory, side-mount with two smaller tanks is perfect for open water divers because it's light, stable, easier on the knees if you hand off the tanks before climbing into the boat, and provides 100% redundancy in the event of a failure. Even in the event of complete stupidity. If you run out of air because you weren't paying attention on side-mount, chances are excellent the other tank still has plenty of air for a safe no-deco ascent.

Two 45's on side-mount is much safer than one 80 on a backmount.

flots.

Oh I get it, I haven't used backmount for any kind of diving for many years. How do you weight for 45's though? I'd think a pair of those old OMS 46 lp tanks would be great for that application (but heavier for sure).

But if I buy one of the cave model BCDs instead then it's OK? I know that is not what you intended to convey, but in the context of this thread that is how it comes across. We aren't discussing the merits of training, we are talking about the location of a LPI inflator house.

I'm still curious why GAdiver thinks "OW only = waste of time!" I'm hoping it's because he has tried both and actually has some insightful first hand experiance to have come to that conclusion. Hopefully it's not just more of the same "It's not cave specific, therefore it must suck!" mantra..

Yes, I am talking about the training. I'm not sure how great it is to have a piece of gear that enables you to go new places without the training to go there. If you're going to spend a couple of days in a class, why not go take a cavern course from a good sidemount cave instructor and really learn how to set up and dive the thing?

I don't know what you mean by "cave specific". Most of the rigs require you to do something to make them trim out right. Either you're adding trim weights to the shoulder straps, or moving the wing down, or folding over the top of the wing to reduce the bouyancy up top--something. The inflator swap is fine but like I said, keep an eye on that string. I also prefer a pull dump at the bottom of the wing and ideally, I'd like to have both (like on my OG homemade one).

We spend a lot of time making our rigs "non-cave specific" because we also dive them in really cold water. No need to get hung up on the cave/noncave thing. Most improvments the cave divers come up with are better in any environment. The kinds changes I make for cold water involve being able to manipulate the rig with big thick mitts on. I use big bolt snaps on the cam bands because I can feel them better. You need big beads or knots on every bungee to be able to get at it, and you will NEVER be able to find that little plastic thing for the pull dump on your shoulder with lobster claw mitts. Here's a Cave Adventurized Hollis SMS next to my OG frankenrig Rennaker plate model. Other than the plate, they really aren't that much different, are they?

rigs.jpg
 
Last edited:
Oh I get it, I haven't used backmount for any kind of diving for many years. How do you weight for 45's though? I'd think a pair of those old OMS 46 lp tanks would be great for that application (but heavier for sure).

2 LP 45's and a 3mm wetsuit requires no weight. The same thing with a drysuit takes about 16lbs. They both trim out beautifully with no extra tweaking.

flots.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom