'Open Water' only sidemount BCDs: Your opinions?

[DaleC]

Hey, arguing is good. It's one way to test ideas

Tell you what Andy, let's put a hold on our discussion for a bit. I believe a picture is worth a thousand words and video is worth a thousand pictures. Next time I'm out (this weekend I hope) I'll take video of the rig in water and orally inflate the wing etc...

 

[DevonDiver]

Its a tedious link, I was thinking the longer LPI hose from the reg could be used on either side - routing from the bottom means a short hose on one side and a longer hose on the other (or a 180 degree dent in either the LPI or corrugated hose).

Lots of time spent fiddling with BCD design, but nobody has touched LPI design since forever..

Would it be so hard to make something like this?

 

[DevonDiver]

Or this...

 

[ffdiver]

Devondiver, You do know not every SM diver configures their regs the same way correct? And that being so, hose routing isn't the same on every SM rig, correct? Is it safe to assume that in some SM configurations, a top mounted LPI can be more streamlined and have better hose routing than a bottom LPI?

I understand how you route your hoses and a bottom mounted LPI would work for you, but it doesn't mean that it will work for everyone based on their hose routing of choice or where they prefer to keep their LPI.

Again, you are trying to argue a standardized approach when their isn't one. Arguing that your way is the best way. DaleC has already shown through a few pictures that his hoses are in no way convoluted or any less streamlined. They are different than what you do and that is all.

 

[DevonDiver]

Devondiver, You do know not every SM diver configures their regs the same way correct? And that being so, hose routing isn't the same on every SM rig, correct? Is it safe to assume that in some SM configurations, a top mounted LPI can be more streamlined and have better hose routing than a bottom LPI?

Not unless the sidemount cylinder is located above the shoulder-routed LPI... errr... like a back-mount!?!?

I refer again to the diagrams supplied... and suggest revision of the 'straight line' concept..

If you're wearing sidemount cylinders, your first stage (regardless of model) is located in the opposite direction that a shoulder-routed LPI nipple faces.

Hawkins might suggest that you could move your LPI at a speed faster than light.... that might solve the connundrum. I don't think Hollis or DiveRite have built that capability into their 'open water' sidemount BCDs yet..

Again, you are trying to argue a standardized approach when their isn't one. Arguing that your way is the best way.

I still can't fathom what cannot be understood about the concept "the shortest distance between two objects is a straight line".

I'm trying to dumb this down sufficiently, but seem to failing miserably...

 

[rjack321]

Dale didn't you get the memo? Hoses are not meant to bend!!

 

[DevonDiver]

Hoses are not meant to bend needlessly!!

Corrected that for you.

If the bend is necessary because of illogical LPI location.... who's to blame?

Reminder: My only purpose is to highlight the issue of certain manufacturers claiming that top-mounted LPI might be preferable to "open water" divers - with the added reference that bottom-mounted LPI are for "overhead environment" divers. This is not a bash against people's right to choose or have a preference. It is merely highlighting that preference exists - but such preference needn't be linked to the overhead/no-overhead issue. In particular, the issue of hose routing is a determining factor in LPI location. That is all. Nice to see that many posts here do serve to support my conjecture.

 

[beanojones]

One thing that really has not been touched on is the fact that Open Water divers (whatever else that phrase might include) includes tha idea that the people around will be standard rental gear divers.

One thing that is certainly true is that standard rental gear divers are not really sure what to make of sidemount.

Another thing that is true is that in places where people are diving rental gear, the only spare regs will be standard rental setups. A standard rental setup can be massaged into SM service pretty easily (though it does require some wrenching to move the inflator to the same side as the primary). While the hose routing in that setup is not ideal, it is certainly better than not diving. Also a replacement LP Hose and corrugated hose for standard length inflators is at every dive shop, the non-standard lengths are not.

So learning how to deal with gear in the real world while diving (which is the main thing I am actually interested in as far as teaching), is best done with gear that is only different from backmount gear in the necessary ways it needs to be.

A top mounted inflator has no particular drawbacks, and some very real benefits in terms of actual real world situations, if that world includes travel and dealing with things as they come.

 

[rjack321]

Real world???!!?!?

This is the internet Beano!

 

[DevonDiver]

Another thing that is true is that in places where people are diving rental gear, the only spare regs will be standard rental setups. A standard rental setup can be massaged into SM service pretty easily (though it does require some wrenching to move the inflator to the same side as the primary).

Not sure what you mean by "wrenching to move the inflator". A spanner and hex works well and takes a few moments to move hoses exactly where you want them on the reg.

Also a replacement LP Hose and corrugated hose for standard length inflators is at every dive shop, the non-standard lengths are not.[?QUOTE]

You know the corrugated can be trimmed down right? Failing that, you know a longer corrugated can be used from the bottom right?

Quick tip re: LP hoses. The nylon braided variants can be pushed into service at much shorter lengths in an emergency. Double them up, and secure around wrapping with duct tape. I used this as a temp solution before, rather than suffer a bendy over-long hose. It was a neater solution.

So learning how to deal with gear in the real world while diving (which is the main thing I am actually interested in as far as teaching), is best done with gear that is only different from backmount gear in the necessary ways it needs to be.

Sidemount is sidemount. Why is there a quest to make it more like backmount? Especially when such a quest detracts from its performance and comfort?

"Real World" diving... the diver goes with their kit and necessary spares and enjoys diving in their preferred configuration.

I can't help but think that this desire to compromise stems from nothing more than (increasingly prevalent) low standards of sidemount instruction..

A top mounted inflator has no particular drawbacks, and some very real benefits in terms of actual real world situations, if that world includes travel and dealing with things as they come.

I see many drawbacks, but no particular benefits. That said, I look at performance, streamlining and task-loading....wheras you look at the 'inevitability' of having to compromise due to using rental gear.

Seriously though, would be interested for thread participants to specifically list what they felt the pros and cons of either method were...