'Open Water' only sidemount BCDs: Your opinions?

[DaleC]

Oh thanks Karl, now I'm googling MSR bags with a gleam in my eye
Did you put an LPI on or just inflate with the sippy tube.

 

[DevonDiver]

How so? It doesn't take very long to learn how to operate a bottom mount LPI.

And yet.... this thread illustrates comprehensively the difficulties which some divers have experienced when transitioning between rigs/approaches..

For OW, which the rig is designed for,...

Oh... you read and believed the marketing hype then?

....there is no need for a bottom LPI. What you are doing is transplanting the requirements of one regime into another.

How many times do I need to repeat.... logical hose management?

Do you fit 6ft laces on your sneakers.... and tie the knot above your head?

For those that can't understand the simple concept...

And.... in case any remains confused.... NONE of that logic changes when entering an overhead environment.

 

[DaleC]

You are repeating yourself and I've already shown the pictures that disprove your mistaken notion of hose routing issues (post 76). The only transitioning difficulty is your inability to let go of some dependent need for a bottom LPI in OW. Who else is going on about this?

I didn't buy the marketing hype - I made my own rig. And while you may think it won't work there I am, out sming every weekend. Go figure? And, if I can find a MSR for cheaps, I'm gonna make and dive one of those too.

 

[DevonDiver]

You are repeating yourself and I've already shown the pictures that disprove your mistaken notion of hose routing issues (post 76).

Your picture illustrated a convoluted hose direction. Again...refer to my diagram (above).

My notion is that: Things facing in opposite directions cannot be joined by a straight, direct line. Not sure how you believe to have disproved that?

....you may think it won't work there I am, out sming every weekend. Go figure?

You misunderstand. I am not trying to prove that a top-mounted LPI "won't work". I am merely trying to offer a suggestion that bottom-mounted LPIs are not "cave only"... or exist for the sole purpose of "protecting the elbow in an overhead environment".

Both of these notions have been expressed on the thread. I see them both as fallacies.

They are, however, fallacies which are being use to dramatic effect by certain sidemount manufacturers...

 

[Karl_H]

Oh thanks Karl, now I'm googling MSR bags with a gleam in my eye
Did you put an LPI on or just inflate with the sippy tube.

The 12l bags work well for tropical weighting, you just need a bungee on either side and route it around your body through the crotch strap loop of the harness. You can inflate/deflate using the drinking tube but water does get in there and can block up the outlet - it's not nice having to suck out the water orally in order to deflate - I'd go for the LPI connections any day, it's a pretty simple mod - adding a dump valve to the centre or the other side to the LPI would be recommended too.

I wouldn't recommend these things over commercial rigs, but they did act as a go-between for a while

 

[DevonDiver]

Here's another way to look at it...

 

[DaleC]

If this is convoluted to you then we are miles apart in thinking:




but your drawing shows you don't even know how a top mounted LPI LP hose is routed. You don't bring it up to the top of the shoulder and then back down again. It connects at the chest like my photo clearly shows.

And while we're at it. Why are you routing your long hose across your chest and around your neck and your short hose around your neck as well - that is a spaghetti incident. Why not route the short hose straight up from the right and the long hose across the neck from the left. Far less traffic in that critical "left shoulder" region.

 

[DevonDiver]

If this is convoluted to you then we are miles apart in thinking:....

Straight line: |


Not straight line: U


Please argue some more... LMAO

Try this... (a challenge for those with 'straight line difficulties'..)

but your drawing shows you don't even know how a top mounted LPI LP hose is routed. You don't bring it up to the top of the shoulder and then back down again. It connects at the chest like my photo clearly shows.

LOL... getting personal?

1. Depends on your 1st stage ports (something the 'open water' SM manufacturers fail to advise upon).
2. Depends on the length/flexibility of your LPI/LP hose (something not readily available in many international locations).
3. Depends if you actually want to use the top-mounted LPI to exhaust the wing... which is what is being sold to 'open water sidemounters'... which your rig patently would not allow anyway?!?
4. Your picture does not accurately portray the alignment as it would be in the water, because you aren't in water and are standing up... allowing the tank to drop lower below your armpit.
5. Your LPI looks near-impossible for a novice sidemount diver to locate and access... and equally near impossible to orally inflate.

And while we're at it. Why are you routing your long hose across your chest and around your neck and your short hose around your neck as well - that is a spaghetti incident. Why not route the short hose straight up from the right and the long hose across the neck from the left. Far less traffic in that critical "left shoulder" region.

1. It conforms with hose configurations familiar to anyone who previously used long hose and necklace back-up from a tech/BP&W/hog background.
2. It conforms with hose configurations taught if the diver were to progress into sidemount technical.
3. It conforms with a hose configuration proven effective through back/side mount use and is widely accepted as preferable.
4. It doesn't allow the short/right hose to dangle below the body like a limp appendage.
5. It doesn't risk said second-stage dropping out of the necklace, below the diver to get damaged or entangled.
6. It doesn't run the regulator hose across the bungee (preventing/obscuring access to the bungee)
7. It doesn't require a 180 degree bend in the regulator hose (you like those?) or the need for a specific reg that allows left-side hose configuration.
6. It is the most streamlined and secure method.

 

[beanojones]

Over the shoulder would also make life easier for anyone who wants to mount a tank on either the left or right side when using single tank sidemount - I'm not saying it's the right approach but it would make things easier.

I am actually trying think this one through, and I do not see how an over the shoulder corrugated hose makes the kit work from both sides.

 

[Karl_H]

Why are you routing your long hose across your chest and around your neck and your short hose around your neck as well - that is a spaghetti incident. Why not route the short hose straight up from the right and the long hose across the neck from the left. Far less traffic in that critical "left shoulder" region.

Just to add some details here the best way by far is to route the hoses around the neck in my opinion – there a similar set of arguments for deco regs from tanks so it’s certainly not a new subject.

Routing the hose around the rear of the neck actually keeps the hoses cleaner overall, although if someone is not familiar with hoses round the neck it can end up a mess without practice – another tick in the box for training I guess. Routing the second stage directly from the tank to the mouth means if the reg is dropped (or knocked from a necklace) it falls, it also makes using the reg much easier on the jaw as the hose is supported at the rear of the neck and you won’t feel the effect of any current ‘rattling’ the short hose.

For the long hose this should still be on the right in my opinion, it’s often easier to switch tanks with a (foolish!) sidemount diver who has depleted air in one tank and is low on the second tank so it’s much better to switch the tank without the LPI hose? It’s also going to be very easy to trap the long hose if you’re using a can light and the hose routing when sharing air just doesn’t flow as well when using a long hose on the left.

---------- Post added February 20th, 2013 at 04:56 PM ----------

I am actually trying think this one through, and I do not see how an over the shoulder corrugated hose makes the kit work from both sides.

Its a tedious link, I was thinking the longer LPI hose from the reg could be used on either side - routing from the bottom means a short hose on one side and a longer hose on the other (or a 180 degree dent in either the LPI or corrugated hose).

Does that make sense? I have a clear picture of what I'm describing in my mind but it could come out as utter rubbish when you read the description above without the same image!