Open Water Dives - 27.8lbs weight belt - did I get too much weight?

[tplyons]

Irrelevant? You cite "in my experience" and yet you refuse to answer the question. Perhaps your knowledge and experience isn't all that you think it is.

One day you will realize just how foolish zero to hero fast tracks are.

You didn't answer my question either. Seems this conversation is a little one-sided.

"In my experience" refers to my open water course. If you would take a look to read what I said instead of attacking my "lack of experience" you would notice I was not referring to myself as an instructor, or a divemaster, but a student in this case. And we're all students once.

Was your buoyancy perfect on your first four dives?

 

[tracydr]

Man, I'm sorry, that's criminal. Reminds me of why I never took the class. By the time I would have taken it, I already knew it all. Then I hear stories like this one.... people wonder why I get my shields up and call BS on every stupid thing I ever see from an LDS or a so-called "pro".

I think this is a class that can be really good or really bad, depending on the teacher.

 

[chrpai]

Was your buoyancy perfect on your first four dives?

No, you started with "I beg to differ." claiming it overweighted was a good and needed thing. Why don't you start by reading:

NASE Doesn’t Offer a Remedial Mask Clearing Course, Either…
Overweighting Students: It?s Just Plain Wrong | NASE Worldwide Diver Training Blog

You don't maintain control of a student by overweighting them. You could put an extra 15lbs on me and I promise you I could still have a runaway ascent if I wanted to be stupid. Especially if that weight belt gets dropped. Yah, I pick those up from the bottom of the lake all the time.

You want perfect buoyancy? Then start by teaching a balanced platform and proper weighting as a core skill that is to be maintained while doing the other skills. Trust me, it's possible.

I'm done..... moving on.

 

[tracydr]

I'd beg to differ.

Some of the skills are downright tough for a new diver, i.e. mask flooding/clearing. Add the potential for a runaway ascent if you're properly weighted but aren't a master of your own buoyancy yet, and there's potential for bad news.

By taking buoyancy control out of the equation, a diver can focus on the tasks we find mundane and everyday.

I remember the first time 54* water hit my face after a full flood. If I wasn't firmly planted on the ground and could feel it, I would've booked it. But instead, I sat there and remembered to "Think, Breathe, Act" instead of bolting.

I beg to differ. I'd say its easier to have a runaway ascent when overweighted. Much easier, due to the larger air bubble that the student must manage. They add more air to compensate for more weight, start to panic and fill up their lungs or start to go up and boom, straight to the top. Much easier when overweighted.
Overweighting is misunderstood by poorly taught, bad instructors and it creates out bad divers.

---------- Post added July 5th, 2013 at 09:13 PM ----------

The question is irrelevant. How many dives I have now does not change what I would have done as an OW student.

But to answer your question, 61.

Can you tell me you were 100% comfortable removing your mask for the first time? Would you have felt the same if you were unsure of your position in the water column?

I never wanted to bolt for the surface.

 

[TSandM]

To the OP: If you are diving an aluminum tank, the weight doesn't sound that far off to me. We generally put our students in Puget Sound in something between 20 and 30 lbs of lead, depending on body habitus, tank choice, and level of anxiety.

You will likely be somewhat overweighted on your original OW dives. Even if your instructor is not using the extra weight to put you on your knees (which requires quite a bit of overweighting), we all know that brand new students are too nervous to empty their lungs, and they end up carrying several pounds of extra weight to get underwater -- because you can't do the dives unless you can sink, and you can't sink with full lungs unless you have extra lead. It complicates the lives of novices, but there really is not much of a way around it. Transitioning from the warm, relatively clear pool to cold water is just stressful for most people, and you have to get underwater and paddle around a bit to begin to relax.

I would use the weight you were given, and if, by the end of Dive 2, you are feeling much more relaxed about things, ask your instructor if you may blow your tank down to 500 psi and do a formal weight check. You may be able to drop a few pounds for the second day of diving.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

As is suggested in some responses, there are more variables at work here than the op has shared. Type and size of scuba tank? style and age of wet suit? hood, gloves, booties? water temperature and conditions? other equipment specifications, like bc type and model? Sadly, too many student divers and instructors think there is a simple calculus for proper weighting, and there is not. There is no substitute for a proper weight check and recheck, until the weight is correct. After just under 100 dives, I have a chart or proper weighting for different locations, conditions and equipment configurations- part of my log of every dive, and there is still a need to fine tune at the outset of each dive trip because there are always some limited variables, even if it seems all is the same as it was 6 months or a year ago. Individual body weight can vary 2% during a single month even if not on a trend to gain or lose weight, water temperature and salinity change, and wet suits age and degrade as to their buoyancy. INSIST on time for a proper weight check, whether before training dives or recreational dives. You will enjoy each dive more.DivemasterDennis

 

[Jim Lapenta]

In my personal experience, when I was an OW student, I would have bolted if I wasn't firmly on the ground. Regardless of how many dives I have now, or you do, we were all OW students once with a little bit of uneasiness when we first started.

Then you had no business in open water. Water temp has little to do with it as well. One of the first things we do on scuba is no mask breathing at the surface. And it's one of the first things on checkouts. Regardless of the water temp. It gets students used to the feeling of cold water on their face. If that is too much the student is not yet comfortable enough to be there. Back to the pool for more drills and task loading to get rid of that flight instinct.

By agency standards I cannot take a student into open water if I have any indication they are a bolter. For any reason. So I task the heck out of them in the pool to try and ID that. Overweighting to try and minimize the risk is horse crap. Because it requires more air for them to be neutral. Or close to neutral. So if they would decide to take off they would be that much harder to get a hold of. Properly weighted means they are less likely to be struggling with buoyancy. So they are more relaxed overall. And we don't do skills kneeling on a platform for them to bolt from. Skills are done as part of the swimming tour. We don't stop to clear a mask. I point to them and indicate I want a mask r&r, they remove and replace it while we swim.

Uneasiness is one thing. The thought of bolting is a near panic response and shows they are too uncomfortable to be there just yet. As a DM candidate you should be telling the students you work with that bolting is bad and that if they feel they might to tell the instructor they are not ready for OW yet. Instructors that plant people firmly on the ground are putting them at unnecessary risk. Needlessly.

 

[tdtaylor]

We do weight checks before every Pool and Open Water OW session. A DM/DC in the water with the student, the instructor or DC on the dock/side of the pool with the weights. Does take an extra 5 minutes, but worth it. Our quarries are cold with low viz, especially on March and November. First, if the 7 mm was a Farmer John/Jane, that is 14mm on the body, and with an aluminum tank in salt water, 27# could be possible-do a weight check.

Also, we do mask off breathing on the surface first (which we think has helped incredibly, especially for nose breathers) to get them acclimated to the cold water, then during the first OW Mask removal exercises, the Instructor or DC is usually holding on to the student, both for safety and comforting. In my half dozen classes so far, all in cold water, this has yield 100% success. Obviously, during later sessions, we are not holding on to the Students, and while we don't have them swim while performing the final drills, most of the time they are doing fin pivots during the final drills, especially during the accents.

And the final tours are much more successful of they are not overweighted.

 

[dytis-sm]

Dear OP,

welcome to Scubaboard! One question can spark a philosophical debate spanning tens of posts. One comment for you, your are ahead of a lot of us as you discovered a wonderful resource to discuss your scuba diving concerns. I wish I had discovered SB earlier in my diving training. Then I may have become a better diver sooner.

From the answers you got, I hope you understand that you are dealing with philosophies as far as starting with too much weight. I disagree with overweighing because some people all they get is the OW course and may develop bad habits but then again there are so many things going on during a short period, that it is too hard to fine tune everything on four training days. My advice is for now to listen to your instructor and finish the course, then work on fine tuning your weight and buoyancy on your own (checkout the UTD videos on Amazon On Demand best $4 you will spend) or by hiring someone to give you true buoyancy advice not just the PADI specialty. Unfortunately it seems that there is some more money to be spend, but it will make your diving so much more fun.

 

[tdtaylor]

I remember after my OW classes were finished, my daughter and I took a bag of weights and spent 45 minutes playing with weights and placement. Trim was as important as overall buoyancy. The best 45 minutes we ever spent. IMO, there is no substitute for taking some time with a Buddy at a dock and trying different weighting. Did the same thing when I got my drysuit.

After getting trimmed and horizontal, I was able to shed weight quickly thereafter. It also helps having a Buddy tell you when you reach a horizontal position, for it originally feels strange at first.

Terry