Open Source Dive Organization

[Wibble]

-Youtube has almost everything you want to know about scuba including gear reviews, skill demonstrations, dive site information, dive vacation reviews, and even old episodes of Sea Hunt.

General YouTube point: for every "good" video with accurate and pertinent information, there's a ton of rubbish opinion or incorrect informational videos.

When you don't know a subject, how do you know what "good" looks like?

 

[Joris Vd]

I used to think that dive training was overpriced or artificially expensive.
Untill I realised how little those instructors sacrificing their weekends actually make...

For example for my adv EANX+DP I paid + - 550 euros (I don't remember the exact amount). But the instructor went out diving with me 4 times on a sunday, that's 4 half working days and I had 2 or 3 evenings of theory. That's more or less 25 hours of class/instruction. 550 is a bargain then, especially considering that the instructor doesn't take the entire amount.

As a reference: I pay 40 euros an hour for my piano class, when I used to take guitar classes it was 20 euros an hour. My girlfriend's horse riding lessons are 40 a week (for 2 classes and it's considered a cheap riding stable).

Scuba training is NOT expensive at all.

Some agencies are focussed on earning money and are a business model, but even those agencies are not leeching of you, they're leeching the dive centers.

If it's all about cheap you can go the bsac, cmas, etc route. The only downside is that you are basically dependant on the amount of instructors and how much time they can/ want to invest.

I am in a CMAS-club myself and like it for the social aspect of it, so not trying to bash the old non profit club system.

 

[rmssetc]

One would think that, if all else were equal, the dive agencies that offer their academic materials for free or at very low cost would dominate the market, because dive shops that teach scuba would be looking to save that overhead cost.

In this thread, NAUI, GUE, and RAID are mentioned. I live in Colorado, which is annually among the top 3 states in the USA for per capita scuba participation, and we have a wealth of scuba shops in the state. None of those shops offer NAUI. One of them offers one class (Fundamentals) of GUE. One of them offers RAID, but the last entry on its FaceBook page announces that is July OW class is canceled and asks if anyone is interested in a class in September.

So this is an honest question: if cost of class materials is such a critical factor, why aren't those three agencies dominating the market in Colorado? I don't have an answer myself.

My guess? The market is dominated by PADI for much the same reason that we put a bandaid on a cut, take Tylenol for a headache, xerox paper documents when we need a copy, etc.

Early market dominance and brand recognition.

Many novice divers, seeking their first (likely only) certification may only have heard of PADI and may doubt that a "scuba license" from some other company would be widely accepted.

 

[VikingDives]

My guess? The market is dominated by PADI for much the same reason that we put a bandaid on a cut, take Tylenol for a headache, xerox paper documents when we need a copy, etc.

Early market dominance and brand recognition.

Many novice divers, seeking their first (likely only) certification may only have heard of PADI and may doubt that a "scuba license" from some other company would be widely accepted.

In the last year I've had three calls where the person asked if I did PADI certifications. Of the three, two went elsewhere and one signed up to take an SDI class with me. Part of the reason I maintain my membership with PADI is so I can claim it on my website.

I always offer my student a choice and explain the differences between the courses to them before they sign up. This almost always results in them signing up for SDI courses though it's probably because I change ~$100 less for SDI...

I used to think that dive training was overpriced or artificially expensive.
Untill I realised how little those instructors sacrificing their weekends actually make...

For example for my adv EANX+DP I paid + - 550 euros (I don't remember the exact amount). But the instructor went out diving with me 4 times on a sunday, that's 4 half working days and I had 2 or 3 evenings of theory. That's more or less 25 hours of class/instruction. 550 is a bargain then, especially considering that the instructor doesn't take the entire amount.

As a reference: I pay 40 euros an hour for my piano class, when I used to take guitar classes it was 20 euros an hour. My girlfriend's horse riding lessons are 40 a week (for 2 classes and it's considered a cheap riding stable).

Scuba training is NOT expensive at all.

Some agencies are focussed on earning money and are a business model, but even those agencies are not leeching of you, they're leeching the dive centers.

If it's all about cheap you can go the bsac, cmas, etc route. The only downside is that you are basically dependant on the amount of instructors and how much time they can/ want to invest.

I am in a CMAS-club myself and like it for the social aspect of it, so not trying to bash the old non profit club system.

When I wasn't working for myself, I worked out that the shop I was working for about $7.50 an hour on average, with a class size of about 10.

 

[kelemvor]

Colorado, which is annually among the top 3 states in the USA for per capita scuba participation, and we have a wealth of scuba shops in the state.

Wow! I never would have guessed that. I would have guessed pretty much any coastal state for third. I wonder how that came to be.

DEMA says Texas is #3. However the dema stats seem to be questionable. They vary widely from other published stats on the matter. Worse, the DEMA report conflicts with its-self in places. For example, it says

Florida ranks number 2 in the number of newly certified scuba divers each year, surpassed only by California.

Right under a chart that shows Florida at 16.18% and California at 12.14%.

 

[RobPNW]

I'm no expert diver but I think the biggest challenge lies in the nature of the "knowledge" and standards when you're talking about diving vs other products and services to which you may compare.

For example, underwater physics and physiology doesn't change over time. Pressure and volume and it's impact on the body doesn't change and there are sources all over the internet like this forum where you can learn that information.

On the other hand, standards in diving also include a significant amount of equipment and procedures related information which depends on personal preference, experience level, type of diving, where you dive etc. You can try to standardize all that but reading more than 2-3 threads here will make it clear that everyone has there own opinions that may or may not comply.

 

[VikingDives]

There's a joke in the FOSS community that goes, "Why is <software> open source? Because no one would pay for it."

I really like the RAID model, but like Linux, it's going to take time before the general public becomes more aware of them.

 

[Wibble]

I'm no expert diver but I think the biggest challenge lies in the nature of the "knowledge" and standards when you're talking about diving vs other products and services to which you may compare.

For example, underwater physics and physiology doesn't change over time. Pressure and volume and it's impact on the body doesn't change and there are sources all over the internet like this forum where you can learn that information.

On the other hand, standards in diving also include a significant amount of equipment and procedures related information which depends on personal preference, experience level, type of diving, where you dive etc. You can try to standardize all that but reading more than 2-3 threads here will make it clear that everyone has there own opinions that may or may not comply.

Standards change a lot depending upon the type of diving you do. Benign, shallow warm water diving doesn't need much training, experience or practice to be "good enough" to enjoy the 45mins follow-the-leader diveMaster.

A 40m/130ft hour on the bottom with decompression dive requires much more training and far better core skills.

A 70m/230ft rebreather dive requires a lot more training and a lot of practice to mitigate potential "problems".

Similarly cave diving, ice diving, lousy visibility cold diving, etc.

 

[Wibble]

I really like the RAID model, but like Linux, it's going to take time before the general public becomes more aware of them.

What is interesting about RAID? Have heard of them and see that there seems to be a fair few people teaching for them, but don't know anything about them really.

Why should one consider RAID?

(New topic?)

 

[kelemvor]

What is interesting about RAID? Have heard of them and see that there seems to be a fair few people teaching for them, but don't know anything about them really.

Why should one consider RAID?

(New topic?)

Raid is good because it can protect you from one or more mass storage failures, depending on the configuration of your array.