Open Source Dive Organization

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SunkenHead

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Location
Cozumel
# of dives
I just don't log dives
Hello world.
In this life there are always alternatives. Thats something human, I suppose. Linux is my favorite example. Linux, GNU, and all the open source software floating around. Photoshop, adobe, microsoft office, and all proprietary software have their counterparts.
Now, in diving.
Is there something like an "open source" alternative to all the money leeching agencies? Is there an agency which focuses in teaching more than in earning money?
I really don't know, and I come here to ask, but it would be nice, wouldn't it? An agency so relaxed that just provides a way to acknowledge your abilities, without having to charge you every single micro course they provide.
Diving gear is expensive as is, why make diving more unreachable with (knoledge wise) useless certifications?
Maybe I'm picturing an utopia-type agency, a non-profit diving organization.
So, is there? An agency like such?
 
When you pay for dive instruction, by far most of that money goes to the local shop or instructor doing the instruction. As an independent instructor now, the only money PADI gets from my instruction is my annual membership fee, the cost of the course materials, and the cost of the certification card. When I worked for dive shops, most of the money went to keeping the dive shop operating, and I rarely made minimum wage. As an independent, I make a bit less now.

There is an old joke--what is the difference between a scuba instructor and an extra large pizza? An extra large pizza can feed a family of four.

Another old joke--how do you make a million dollars in the scuba industry? Invest two million dollars.

So, yes, there are dive clubs--BSAC comes to mind--that can give you what you are looking for. You can also get instruction from people volunteering to help you, understanding that these people will not have liability insurance, so if something goes wrong, the ensuing lawsuit will be tough on them. You also have to not mind leeching off of them.

Otherwise, what you are asking for is a way to get people to work for you on the cheap so that you don't have to pay them what their time and effort is worth.
 
The strength in open source is the community. A community that gives and receives to the benefit of the community. There are obvious inherent problems involved with such a system, but growth can happen.

As @boulderjohn mentioned, dive clubs can provide that sense of community where knowledge, work, and resource are shared. I've seen it work; we had a similar club. I don't know how insurance was handled, except that I recall discussions of the "professionals" maintaining their insurance. During post-dive debriefings, there was a collection bucket to help offset the costs. It was all very informal.

Point is, it can be done, but there are challenges to overcome. Create a community of diverse background, and it should be doable.
 
@SunkenHead there are a couple non-profits out there, GUE being one of them though are most definitely not open-source. The closest thing to what you are describing is BSAC though it's not open-source in terms of how they train. The RSTC has ruined a lot of what you are asking about though.
 
When you pay for dive instruction, by far most of that money goes to the local shop or instructor doing the instruction. As an independent instructor now, the only money PADI gets from my instruction is my annual membership fee, the cost of the course materials, and the cost of the certification card. When I worked for dive shops, most of the money went to keeping the dive shop operating, and I rarely made minimum wage. As an independent, I make a bit less now.

There is an old joke--what is the difference between a scuba instructor and an extra large pizza? An extra large pizza can feed a family of four.

Another old joke--how do you make a million dollars in the scuba industry? Invest two million dollars.

So, yes, there are dive clubs--BSAC comes to mind--that can give you what you are looking for. You can also get instruction from people volunteering to help you, understanding that these people will not have liability insurance, so if something goes wrong, the ensuing lawsuit will be tough on them. You also have to not mind leeching off of them.

Otherwise, what you are asking for is a way to get people to work for you on the cheap so that you don't have to pay them what their time and effort is worth.
Oh no no, you got me wrong. I'm not saying free instructions, free classes and such. I'm saying free resources.
What an instructor does, only an instructor can do. The instructor is the one teaching. The problem I see is when an organization tries to sell courses as if they were hot (expensive) potatoes.
My point is, knowledge must be free. Theoretical knowledge at least. And this theoretical knowledge should be recognized as a good enough source of information for a certification (plus all the practical knowledge an instructor is to give).
Take the USN navy diving manual for example. It explains everything one must know about diving for free, and most of the agencies take the information from it. And yet most agencies charge you 50 dollars for a book of postdigested information, taken from that same manual.
To me it seems kind of absurd.
 
I didn't know the existence of those agencies, so thank you! I am checking them out.
@SunkenHead there are a couple non-profits out there, GUE being one of them though are most definitely not open-source. The closest thing to what you are describing is BSAC though it's not open-source in terms of how they train. The RSTC has ruined a lot of what you are asking about though.
As @undrwater asked, why do you say that?
 
Can you explain how?
they've locked up what needs to be taught at which level and have given a lot of the extra courses that the OP said he was opposed to.

@SunkenHead the USN manual is different, it was funded by the government and paid for by the taxpayers so that is fair to be free. The rest of the information out there is privately collected and as such someone needs to pay for it. Most of the training agencies have essentially become publishing houses more than anything and those course materials are where they make their money and is probably one of the reasons that there is no representation on this forum from any of the training agencies.

If you want free educational materials, organizations like RAID have published theirs, and I think SSI did something about free online learning, but the reality is that most of the book materials are pretty rubbish out there and the list of quality books out there worth reading are very short. This forum is one of the best resources out there for anything you want to know as told by legitimate professionals in the industry.
 
Oh no no, you got me wrong. I'm not saying free instructions, free classes and such. I'm saying free resources.
What an instructor does, only an instructor can do. The instructor is the one teaching. The problem I see is when an organization tries to sell courses as if they were hot (expensive) potatoes.
Once again, it is the dive shop and instructor who are the primary recipients of the cost of those courses.

If the agency promotes a course to help in that, what is the harm?
My point is, knowledge must be free. Theoretical knowledge at least. And this theoretical knowledge should be recognized as a good enough source of information for a certification (plus all the practical knowledge an instructor is to give).
Did you go to college, and if you did, were your textbooks free? Does it cost nothing to make those texts? Is there a difference in the quality of the texts?
Take the USN navy diving manual for example. It explains everything one must know about diving for free, and most of the agencies take the information from it. And yet most agencies charge you 50 dollars for a book of postdigested information, taken from that same manual. To me it seems kind of absurd.
The US Navy manual was very expensive to produce, but it was produced with tax dollars, so it is "free" to us. The texts created by agencies are very different, and they are not paid for by tax dollars. Much of the information is the same, but an educational text is different from a manual. The material in an educational text is carefully sorted and presented using (hopefully) sound educational principles to enhance learning. As the former Executive Director of Curriculum for a national company creating such materials at the high school level, I am well aware of that. The information in our courses was free to us, but creating the course in a way that made it easy for students to learn was a challenge, and when I did it 13 years ago, a single year course cost us about $100,000 to make. Here is a book that describes the process by which good courses are created.

Think about this--OW courses are taken by people with educational levels ranging from 5th grade to post doctoral. They all use the same educational materials. Do you think it is easy to pull that off?
 
Once again, it is the dive shop and instructor who are the primary recipients of the cost of those courses.

If the agency promotes a course to help in that, what is the harm?

Did you go to college, and if you did, were your textbooks free? Does it cost nothing to make those texts? Is there a difference in the quality of the texts?

The US Navy manual was very expensive to produce, but it was produced with tax dollars, so it is "free" to us. The texts created by agencies are very different, and they are not paid for by tax dollars. Much of the information is the same, but an educational text is different from a manual. The material in an educational text is carefully sorted and presented using (hopefully) sound educational principles to enhance learning. As the former Executive Director of Curriculum for a national company creating such materials at the high school level, I am well aware of that. The information in our courses was free to us, but creating the course in a way that made it easy for students to learn was a challenge, and when I did it 13 years ago, a single year course cost us about $100,000 to make. Here is a book that describes the process by which good courses are created.

Think about this--OW courses are taken by people with educational levels ranging from 5th grade to post doctoral. They all use the same educational materials. Do you think it is easy to pull that off?
Yes, I went to college, and yes, the books were free to access them on the library. Unlimited access to a finite but large collection of information. And not only to the students, but to anyone who can read. Also, the classes were free access, to anyone who might be passing by and be interested in the subject. There is Archive (.org) providing tons of books for free. And there is always pirating, but that's a moral discussion independent to my point.

And the "free" point about the USN manual, you're totally right, I'm not denying that, but yet, we can access that book for no immediate cost.

I do know the information on the books we are reading costs money. The same way Microsoft paid millions to make microsoft Word. But with the microsoft example, there is libreoffice. I'm not saying agencies are completelly evil, and you are mistaken if you think I'm saying so. I'm saying there must be an alternative, which as many of you, friends, say, there are, although not as well founded as the profitable agencies are.
 

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