Open Source Dive Organization

[sandanbob]

NAUI (naui.org) I believe is non-profit. They also offer free access to some of their e-learning courses, though no certification is granted. Last week, I worked through their nitrox e-learning as a refresher, just for fun. A note on the RAID manuals. They are available, as indicated, but there seems to be an expiration, so I would suggest you 'sign up' for them as you have time to work through. Also, I believe that their manuals (at least some of them) were translated into English, so not everything came through perfectly.

 

[loosenit2]

look at RAID.

Learn to scuba dive | Get your scuba certification | Scuba diving lessons | Online scuba training | Learn to dive rebreathers | Scuba diving schools | Scuba vacations | Underwater photography | Diver training program

RAID is a dedicated, e-learning, recreational rebreather and open circuit training programme covering a range of educational courses from Level 1 to Instructor Trainer. Learn to Scuba dive - RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW!

www.diveraid.com

They offer a lot of their course material free online, you just pay for actual instruction.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

As others have said, look at RAID (www.diveraid.com). Free material online. I've downloaded all the student and instructor manuals I could (I should check for updates). Instructors have no yearly dues now. I believe (@RainPilot please correct me if I am wrong), is that RAID has made the business decision to reduce the fixed costs for instructors/dive centers as Covid19 has been devastating for the dive industry. There is a fairly small certification requirements for instructors (I believe I read 5 courses, easy for an on-the-side instructor to meet). Some fees for a course will go to RAID for the certification, just like any agency.

How does RAID get away with this? I suspect their focus is stability in their instructors/dive centers and also being a lean organization. Some agencies are fairly bloated in comparison.

Now I'm not a RAID instructor, but I like what they are doing. I like that they do not have a buoyancy course as they get open water done right with requiring skills to be performed neutrally buoyant and they give instructors excellent guidelines on how to weight students.

 

[GJC]

Hello world.
In this life there are always alternatives. Thats something human, I suppose. Linux is my favorite example. Linux, GNU, and all the open source software floating around. Photoshop, adobe, microsoft office, and all proprietary software have their counterparts.
Now, in diving.
Is there something like an "open source" alternative to all the money leeching agencies? Is there an agency which focuses in teaching more than in earning money?
I really don't know, and I come here to ask, but it would be nice, wouldn't it? An agency so relaxed that just provides a way to acknowledge your abilities, without having to charge you every single micro course they provide.
Diving gear is expensive as is, why make diving more unreachable with (knoledge wise) useless certifications?
Maybe I'm picturing an utopia-type agency, a non-profit diving organization.
So, is there? An agency like such?

I'm not sure if you you are looking for knowledge or lower cost certifications.

If you are looking for lower cost certs, my feeling is you get what you pay for and you may not be happy with what you get for lower cost certification. You have to make it worth the time spent for the instructor, the people that prepared the instruction materials and the cost of producing and distributing certification cards.

If you are looking for knowledge, there are avenues that you can pursue that are free or have minimal cost:

-Scubaboard has a wealth of knowledge. You just have to wade through a lot of posts to find the gems

-Almost every dive shop has a club associated with it. There are also a lot of free standing dive clubs. Being an active member of a club gives you access to experienced divers that can be your resource for information and feedback on your skills.

-Some dive shops and clubs have a formal mentoring process you can participate in to gain skills without enrolling in a certification course.

-Youtube has almost everything you want to know about scuba including gear reviews, skill demonstrations, dive site information, dive vacation reviews, and even old episodes of Sea Hunt.

 

[boulderjohn]

If you are certified to dive by any of the more than 100 legitimate dive agencies, you are certified to dive. Period. Your certification card from any of those agencies will be good anywhere in the world.

One would think that, if all else were equal, the dive agencies that offer their academic materials for free or at very low cost would dominate the market, because dive shops that teach scuba would be looking to save that overhead cost.

In this thread, NAUI, GUE, and RAID are mentioned. I live in Colorado, which is annually among the top 3 states in the USA for per capita scuba participation, and we have a wealth of scuba shops in the state. None of those shops offer NAUI. One of them offers one class (Fundamentals) of GUE. One of them offers RAID, but the last entry on its FaceBook page announces that is July OW class is canceled and asks if anyone is interested in a class in September.

So this is an honest question: if cost of class materials is such a critical factor, why aren't those three agencies dominating the market in Colorado? I don't have an answer myself.

 

[lowwall]

Is there something like an "open source" alternative to all the money leeching agencies? Is there an agency which focuses in teaching more than in earning money?
I really don't know, and I come here to ask, but it would be nice, wouldn't it? An agency so relaxed that just provides a way to acknowledge your abilities, without having to charge you every single micro course they provide.
Diving gear is expensive as is, why make diving more unreachable with (knoledge wise) useless certifications?
Maybe I'm picturing an utopia-type agency, a non-profit diving organization.
So, is there? An agency like such?

IFDI : Learn scuba diving

Learn scuba diving, easily and safely with IFDI: International Fun Diving Instructors. IFDI is a neutral and international diving organization, based on the international ISO standards which guarantee you high quality courses and a worldwide recognition.

www.ifdi.info

This is exactly what you are looking for. Unfortunately, their level of relaxation includes a lack of interest in marketing and an unwillingness to jump through the hoops to receive national or WRSTC recognition. So I'm not sure how much luck you'll have finding an instructor or whether the cert card will be accepted by the dive ops you want to use.

 

[RainPilot]

[/QUOTE]

A note on the RAID manuals. They are available, as indicated, but there seems to be an expiration, so I would suggest you 'sign up' for them as you have time to work through. Also, I believe that their manuals (at least some of them) were translated into English, so not everything came through perfectly.

There is not an expiration, per se. On any RAID course, you have 6 months from purchase of the course to complete certification. If you have not completed in this time, you need to re-purchase the course. For the FreE-learning, since you paid zero for it, the "repurchase" is only required if you plan to use those materials to certify, which you would have to do anyway even within those 6 months. The manuals and courses do not go away when they "expire", you have permanent access to all the manuals (and any revisions) for life.


RAID manuals were all written in English from the start, the grammatical errors etc are mostly from the time when in its early history the organisation was 3 people, and was mainly a rebreather focused agency in collaboration with Poseidon. The manuals have been the subject of a extensive refresh and rewrite program for a while now, but that has been done in order of course popularity so a couple of the more obscure courses still have the older look and feel to them, for now. The CCR courses have also been on hold for refresh as the entire CCR progression is being revamped to comply with the new RTC and RESA standards and practices.

(@RainPilot please correct me if I am wrong)

No correction required. To expand slightly, as a RAID instructor my current agency costs are the e-learning and certification costs (60 USD for most rec courses, 80-90 USD for tech/overhead courses and then the professional level courses are more for DM and OWSI)

I pay no yearly fees and have no other financial obligations to RAID. If I do fewer than 5 certifications next year, then I will be required to do an update with HQ in order to ensure I am familiar with the standards etc and any changes that may have happened while I was not actively teaching. There is no indication (yet) what the financials on an update will be.

As a dive centre, I also have no fees to RAID at all.

 

[Germie]

There are a lot of good books written about diving. They are not free, but you can buy them. But for a course you have to pay. Some countries like my country offer more or less free courses in clubs with CMAS. The instructors are volunteers. But you also see this back most times in the level of teaching.
I also teach cmas, but am also iantd instructor. I have paid for my instructor courses and levels and knowledge quite a lot. I don't share too much information for free anymore. The reason is that some divers used it to do dives they are not certified for. Also I made a lot of costs and it is not that I need to become rich, but to earn the costs I made back is not a bad idea in my eyes.

 

[KenGordon]

So, yes, there are dive clubs--BSAC comes to mind--that can give you what you are looking for. You can also get instruction from people volunteering to help you, understanding that these people will not have liability insurance, so if something goes wrong, the ensuing lawsuit will be tough on them. You also have to not mind leeching off of them.

All BSAC instructors, indeed all BSAC members, have third party insurance. In general though we are much more worried about people being hurt than being sued.

People being trained for free is not leeching. There are many motivations for teaching. Personally I do it to have more people to dive with and so we can charter boats at a reasonable cost per head.

Indeed the people in the U.K. teaching for small commercial schools seem to be being explored rather more than club instructor. They often only get weekend work for minimum wage if they are lucky but have to pay an agency annual professional fees.

 

[Wibble]

Why do you NEED an agency?

You need initial certification otherwise you'll be stopped from diving (e.g. OW + AOW). This needs a recognised standard and "card" which the agencies provide.

After then, you don't actually need agencies. You certainly aren't tied to specific agencies -- most of us have certifications from many agencies: PADI, GUE, IANTD, TDI...

However, as you get more "technical", you need GOOD instructors and coaches. Generally the agencies would provide the educational framework, supporting materials, proactive instructor skills development and all the quality assurance to meet their standards.


Open standards: is this actually beneficial?

You pay for the course material. This means you're paying for professional standards of teaching and syllabus. The agencies take responsibility for this, not least with their reputation.

With open standards, there's nobody responsible aside from a few keen amateurs.

One of the main changes in diving training over the past 30 years is the development of standard techniques and kit, also agencies meeting those standards. Cave and deep diving training for example; if you're not good enough you will die. Open standards never meet that level of accountability, responsibility and culpability.

If something's worth doing it has a value for which you're prepared to pay. If you give it away, it ceases to have a value.


In the grand scheme of things, I am happy to pay good money for good training and coaching. That the agency gets some of that money is fine by me. I most certainly don't want some newbie idiot (or GI3) teaching me; the agencies keep the instructor on track.