Only in the good old USA part 2

[cdiver2]

Coming from a city like Baltimore, where people go to prison and get killed every day, I am just as sickened by this guy as I am with the state of our jail systems. Would it make a big difference if one of these inmates were to die under this tyrannical warden? Prisoners that were not sentenced to death do not deserve it, no? And prisoners do have rights under the constitution, I would refer you to the Eigth Amendment.

Where I come from, nobod fears going to jail. Going to jail is just another source of street credit, something to be celebrated. People get murdered in jail. They die of AIDS and CUREABLE STDs in jail. They die of things that can be easil prevented, like heat stroke and chlamydia. Healthcare in Jails is just abominable here.

People here come through Jail here go right back to what they were doing before- killing people. The what good did the whole process do? How much money did the taxpayers spend to keep another villan off the streets? Why not teach them to get their GED, or maybe a college education while they are locked up so they can land on their feet after they get out? How much good does it really do to have them work on a chain line, when they could actually be making up for lost educational time?

I think that different crimes deserve different measures. Maybe a lady who was convicted on charges of heroin possession and prostitution, rather than going to jail where she might catch ANOTHER STD or get murdered, should go to a halfway house where maybe she can get clean and get a good job. What good would it be for her to work on a chain line? I don't think much.

Just my opinion.

thats in a perfect world and we all know we don't live in one. You can have all of the above if you are willing to pay for it, that dreaded word taxes. Also it would help some but not all for a couple of reasons.
1/ A juvenile center I worked in had education all day long but there behavior made it near impossible to teach, so they came up with the idea a empty class room next door then if you disrupt the class you go in there under the supervision of a guard no talking just sit there until they were ready to go back to class and conform. Within a 1/2 hour (every day) there were more students in the quiet room than the class and officers were attacked for trying to enforce the quiet, we also had a hard time getting teachers to work with them (can not say I blame them).
2/ The ones that do further there education have a hard time finding work, who wants to hire an x con when there are thousands of law abiding citizens looking for work. My choice would be the law abiding one.

No matter witch side your on it always comes back to the same thing we don't want to pay more money than we have to on criminals and we don't want prisons in OUR back yard so who is going to give this money and who's back yard do we put the prisons in.

 

[fmw625]

IMO any one who is convicted of a crime is no longer worthy to claim citizenship. Therefore they have forfited all their rights under the constitution. Detainees awaitingtrial however, inocent until proven guilty still retain all their rights. What about the rights of the people that were subject to the criminal behavior?

 

[Bob3]

IMO any one who is convicted of a crime is no longer worthy to claim citizenship. Therefore they have forfited all their rights under the constitution. Detainees awaitingtrial however, inocent until proven guilty still retain all their rights. What about the rights of the people that were subject to the criminal behavior?

One of my ex-wife's favorite past times was to call my name in for anything on the "crime stopper's hotline" thing they had going. "Innocent until proven guilty"? B***S***, I had to keep a running log of where I was 24 hrs/day, they tried to get me for a double murder, even though I had at least a hundred witnesses putting me elsewhere at the time. The prosecutors don't care if you're guilty or not, just if they can get a conviction.
Not everybody in jail belongs there.

 

[simbrooks]

One of my ex-wife's favorite past times was to call my name in for anything on the "crime stopper's hotline" thing they had going. "Innocent until proven guilty"? B***S***, I had to keep a running log of where I was 24 hrs/day, they tried to get me for a double murder, even though I had at least a hundred witnesses putting me elsewhere at the time. The prosecutors don't care if you're guilty or not, just if they can get a conviction.
Not everybody in jail belongs there.

She sounds like a keeper

 

[michaelp68]

IMO any one who is convicted of a crime is no longer worthy to claim citizenship. Therefore they have forfited all their rights under the constitution. Detainees awaitingtrial however, inocent until proven guilty still retain all their rights. What about the rights of the people that were subject to the criminal behavior?

Do you think that some guy who possesses and smokes marijuana in his house should lose his citizenship and constitutional rights?

Two drunk guys fight with each other in a bar and beat each other up. There's nothing permanent since the bruises will go away in a couple weeks. Obviously it's a stupid and criminal thing on both their parts. They have no history of criminal misconduct. Should they lose their citizenship and constitutional rights?

Some 20 year old guy has "relations" with some 17 year old girl. She gives her consent. She lies to him and tells him that she's 19. It's statutory rape in some places. Should he lose his citizenship and constitutional rights?

Do you put these people in the same category as the guy who sells cocaine to school children, or rapes and murders someone?

The whole thing with Jean Valjean serving 20 years in a chain gang just for stealing a loaf of bread....

Perhaps everything isn't always so black and white, and perhaps it shouldn't be.

Personally, I'm not sympathetic to convicts and the conditions in prison. I like the idea of prison being an unpleasant experience. BUT, it's taking things quite a bit farther than that when we start talking about revoking citizenship and constitutional rights.

I don't know exactly how the famous quote goes, or who said it. Perhaps it's Alexis de Tocqueville. Maybe someone smarter than me will recognize what I'm trying to say and correct me. But the gist of it is that a society is measured by how it treats its worse citizens, not by how it treats its average citizens or the best among them.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Michael

 

[mempilot]

I belive that if you are charged with a crime you should be put on a poly and given drugs that make you tell the truth and are asked questions pertaining only to the crime you are charged with.

I vote for this.

And I bet the sheriff's town is a pretty safe place to live. Squared away sh!t don't stink.

 

[PB565]

Would'nt it make life easier just to obey the law? Funny, I don't have these problems and am pretty happy.

 

[Knight1989]

I;m not going to comment on this guys views about other aspects of law enforcement, since I'm not informed on them. And I certainly dont take Penn and Teller as an informed source. As for his prison system, I've thought this for the past few years ever since I heard of him, its about time. Criminals should be treated as such. We should make prison so horribale that they dont want to commit the crimes again and return there. Its time to stop codeling the scumbags and hold them accountable. As far as I'm concerned we should use his idea as a roadmap to change the national prison system. I have absolutly no interest at all in the rights or welfare of a bunch of convicted felons. Why is it there are law abiding citizens that cant live as good as the people in prison? I dont have a pool table, I dont have a home gym. If it werent for the military there would be no way I could afford a college education. But these magots get it all for free. I hope that he finds more ways to increase the harsh conditions at his prison and I fully support him and what he is doing.

 

[mike_s]

He also has no regard for the Constitutional rights of the American people. In his eyes everyone is breaking the law, he just needs a chance to catch them. If you are a fan of his you are no fan of the Bill of Rights.
Good luck to you and your buddy Sheriff Joe!

hmmmm... I think you are confused here.

The Sheriffs didn't convict these people. A jury of their peers or a Judge did. He or his deputies most likely didn't arrest a majority of these people. The county jail just houses inmates for long term purposes for all local municipal police departments in that county and also for inmates awaiting trial or inamates serving misdemeaner sentences.

In fact, the people of this county like him. He was even re-elected for subsequent terms.

Our local county jail has a similar problem. Overcrowding and a state prision system that won't come pick up the inmates. A federal judge had to order the state to come pick them up within 30 days of their sentencing because some of them were still in county jail for 6 months or longer when they should have been in state prison. Why? overcrowding a the state prison system.

However the sheriffs jail budget didn't get doubled when his jail population doubled. Because of that he has to "pack" them into large room dorm bunk housing and spend more on food, insurance, medical care, etc. One of the says they do this is by feeding them bolona sandwiches and cheap food. I don't think I would like it if I was in jail, that's for sure But I don't blame the sheriff for it because he's just trying to do his job. We've gotten "work release" prisoners before for helping with the cjarity groups my wife works with. 95% of them are nice guys who are just down on their luck for a stupid crime they committed. They aren't in jail because the sheriff was out to ge them, they are in for failure to appear, meth, dope, child support, dui, etc or some other petty crime and can't make jail or serving a misdemeaner sentence. Most of them don't have anything against the sheriff and willingly admit they did something wrong. Very seldom have I heard one say "I'm Innocent".

 

[Robert Phillips]

hmmmm... I think you are confused here.

The Sheriffs didn't convict these people. A jury of their peers or a Judge did. He or his deputies most likely didn't arrest a majority of these people. The county jail just houses inmates for long term purposes for all local municipal police departments in that county and also for inmates awaiting trial or inamates serving misdemeaner sentences.

In fact, the people of this county like him. He was even re-elected for subsequent terms.

Our local county jail has a similar problem. Overcrowding and a state prision system that won't come pick up the inmates. A federal judge had to order the state to come pick them up within 30 days of their sentencing because some of them were still in county jail for 6 months or longer when they should have been in state prison. Why? overcrowding a the state prison system.

However the sheriffs jail budget didn't get doubled when his jail population doubled. Because of that he has to "pack" them into large room dorm bunk housing and spend more on food, insurance, medical care, etc. One of the says they do this is by feeding them bolona sandwiches and cheap food. I don't think I would like it if I was in jail, that's for sure But I don't blame the sheriff for it because he's just trying to do his job. We've gotten "work release" prisoners before for helping with the cjarity groups my wife works with. 95% of them are nice guys who are just down on their luck for a stupid crime they committed. They aren't in jail because the sheriff was out to ge them, they are in for failure to appear, meth, dope, child support, dui, etc or some other petty crime and can't make jail or serving a misdemeaner sentence. Most of them don't have anything against the sheriff and willingly admit they did something wrong. Very seldom have I heard one say "I'm Innocent".

I think you are confused about my post. I was not reffering to the prisoners in his county jail (though that is the focus of this thread, so I can see the confusion,) but for the average Arizona resident, or any other law abiding citizen.
In none of my posts to this thread have I stated one way or the other how I feel about his "labor camps." Nor have I said anything about the prisoners he is holding or why they are there. I prefer not to admire people who, on one hand, in the opinion of some, do great work, while violating the rights of law abiding citizens in other areas.
Any other feelings I have have no place being discussed on this board as they are my political opinions, though I will say that I absolutley agree with your last paragraph.