OMS Wing and single Tank

[The Chairman]

logical conclusion...

You don't like add ons... the STA is an add on. The back plate was NOT designed to hold a single tank... there needed to be a solution to "make it work". You both state that you don't like "Rube Goldberg" setups, but is there any other way to describe this??? No, its the old Rule #2; its not good because you said it's not good. Or it is good because you have blessed it. Nothing more, nothing less. I have offered reasons as to why I do what I do, you do little but tell everyone that I am fantasizing and have gone off the deep end.

I merely "took your statements to their logical conclusion". I really don't expect you two to see it because you are both lost causes. I just wanted to make sure that everyone else can see just how "emotional" you two become when the shoe is on the other foot. You did not disappoint me. Did I lie... no, I simply used logic to demonstrate how untenable your positions really are. Logic and Rule #2 are mutually exclusive.

Attacked DIR??? No, I have shown a "harsh light" on how illogical you guys are in your desperate attempts to discredit a simple and elegant system. Y'all should go and learn from Yoop, UP and Iggy. When crap starts coming out of your mouth it usually ends up in your face. Better go find a paper towel and clean yourself up.

Now, I have said all that I am going to say about this. Go ahead and bash away. It's what you obviously enjoy, and even though you won't apologize to ME, I still forgive you. I am just glad that from reading the comments here and elsewhere, that I am NOT the only one who sees your whack-a-stroke mentality.

One last thing... I pity the people that will never even consider what DIR has to offer because guys like you spread so much venom. If you want to reach a broader audience you will have to lose the condescending attitudes and the medieval logic.

 

[pipedope]

"The anti-DIR crowd has a long-standing tradition about lying about the DIR system"

Funny, didn't I keep hearing "Dive the same rig for all of your diving." Along with, "starting out with a DIR rig will save you money by saving you from needing to buy another rig."

When I said that the diving gear should fit the dive objective I was told that the SINGLE DIR rig DOES fit every diving need.

Now all of a sudden it is, "This is, and has been
a main componet of a BP/wing system - use the appropriate gear. "

So who is lying?
Or is it that you just can't make up your mind what is the way to go?

 

[roakey]

Poor course of action Pete, too bad. You had a chance to show some integrity.

Despite your rantings to the contrary, I never resorted to lying.

pipedope, rather than building strawman arguments using your quotes, try reading our statements in their entirety for comprehension.

Roak

 

[The Chairman]

Originally posted by roakey
Despite your rantings to the contrary, I never resorted to lying.

Neither have I... take a course in logic and you MIGHT just understand it (but then you would have to abandon better than half of your arguments). The "he lied about me" was old before you typed it. That is a lie in itself, and YOU know it.

And I am sorry that I posted AGAIN... I will try to abstain, but they keep lying about me.

But is was fun to experience what they get to experience all of the time... the bait, the bite, and the mad scramble as they try to look like they didn't fall for it. I can see how this gloating thing could be addicting. At least I was honest in admitting that I baited them... ol' Roak still hasn't admitted to that from his very first post in this thread. If he sticks true to form, he won't either... lets watch and see what happens next.

And one of these clowns still claims that I "admit" to power deflation of a bungeed wing. Even after I pointed out this error in another thread, it still continues. I guess that their self deception blinds them to reality.

 

[The Chairman]

Just wanted to give these fine people a respite from our rantings. Oh yeah, there was no real clear place to cut it, so I did my best... sorry if you don't like how I did it.

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=97929

 

[omar]

You don't like add ons... the STA is an add on. The back plate was NOT designed to hold a single tank... there needed to be a solution to "make it work". You both state that you don't like "Rube Goldberg" setups, but is there any other way to describe this??? No, its the old Rule #2; its not good because you said it's not good. Or it is good because you have blessed it. Nothing more, nothing less. I have offered reasons as to why I do what I do, you do little but tell everyone that I am fantasizing and have gone off the deep end.

Not true. I did not say you were going off the deep end or fantasizing. In your haste to attack the messenger and not the message you got carried away. I also did not say to use a STA. I don’t use or need one for singles. Now what Petey? The only reason that you gave was to prevent the “taco effect”. You did not address the question about using the right sized wing. You only said that it costs money. I can only assume that you don’t want to take the time or effort to try using the right gear and only want to type away with personal attacks instead of addressing the question since you have been avoiding it like the plague.

I merely "took your statements to their logical conclusion". I really don't expect you two to see it because you are both lost causes. I just wanted to make sure that everyone else can see just how "emotional" you two become when the shoe is on the other foot. You did not disappoint me. Did I lie... no, I simply used logic to demonstrate how untenable your positions really are. Logic and Rule #2 are mutually exclusive.

Attacked DIR??? No, I have shown a "harsh light" on how illogical you guys are in your desperate attempts to discredit a simple and elegant system. Y'all should go and learn from Yoop, UP and Iggy. When crap starts coming out of your mouth it usually ends up in your face. Better go find a paper towel and clean yourself up.

The only emotional crap that is spewing is from you.

Now, I have said all that I am going to say about this. Go ahead and bash away. It's what you obviously enjoy, and even though you won't apologize to ME, I still forgive you. I am just glad that from reading the comments here and elsewhere, that I am NOT the only one who sees your whack-a-stroke mentality.

Typical statement from someone who can not defend their position and must have the last word. I didn’t expect it from you.

One last thing... I pity the people that will never even consider what DIR has to offer because guys like you spread so much venom. If you want to reach a broader audience you will have to lose the condescending attitudes and the medieval logic.

This is a hoot the only venom here is from you. As I have said before, take a look in the mirror. And as I have also said to you “you are an accident waiting to happen”.

omar

 

[roakey]

This space intentionally left blank do to an entire string being moved.

 

[roakey]

Then support this statement:

"I do agree with Omar and Roakey that the back plate and wings are not the best suited to a single tank system."

You assert that omar an I BOTH think that a back plate and wings are not the best suited to a single tank system.

If you're so confident, prove it. Full, complete quotes only please.

I can't prove a negative (one of the foibles of logic) so it's up to you to prove your assertions. If you can show that omar and I have stated the above you've got a double win, you've shown that you didn't lie and I did.

No lose situation for you, go for it!

I'm glad that you got to experience the bait, the bite and the mad scramble. But believe me, it's far more satisfying, not to mention honest if you don't have to lie to do it. Glad you enjoyed your little game, but in the end remember, we stand FOR something, you merely stand against something. A rather empty position to fight for.

Roak

 

[omar]

Show me where I said "that the back plate and wings are not the best suited to a single tank system."

You can't because I didn't.

`Contrariwise', continued Tweedledee, `If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'


omar

 

[VTWarrenG]

Some thoughts, cross-posted:

The reason the DIR militants are so militant is simple: DIR is very safe, and most other systems are less safe. Please note the strong qualifier: most. In general, those that do everything their own way, without any regard to the opinion of those more experienced than themselves, tend to be somewhat unsafe -- but there certainly are those intelligent folks who blaze their own trails, and do so with safety on par with that of the DIR system. My hat is off to those people. They are quite rare.

It's often stunning to me to see all the belly-aching that goes on with regard to diving gear and technique standardization. Many other sports have such standardization clearly included as part-and-parcel of the sport itself. Rock climbing folks, for instance, have zero tolerance for others who, for instance, use their own knots, or their own anchoring techniques. There's really only one kind of gear to purchase, and one way to solve each problem, and no one questions any of it. Why not? Because the standard gear and techniques solve all problems with little, or at least predictable (thus manageable) risk. There isn't a single good reason to go against that dogma, because any differences are almost certain to decrease safety, rather than increase it. The same concept applies, with the same gusto, to diving: those who do everything their own way are seldom as safe as those that go with the collective choices of a large number of more experienced people.

Now Pete, you have your solution to your "taco effect." Here's my analysis of the "spreader plate:"

Pros:
1) It doesn't require purchasing a new wing.

Cons:
1) It requires purchasing/fabricating a spreader plate. The fact that the spreader plate is less expensive than a wing is notwithstanding - it's still another piece of kit to own, clean, tote, and store, just like another wing.
2) It requires wearing more gear than just buying a smaller wing. While wearing more gear is not necessarily less safe, it is probably less safe. It may be hard to make such a judgement without quite a bit of study that you simply can't do by yourself on a few dives. It's certainly very unlikely that it's more safe.
3) It requires more futzing, or at least equal futzing, than just changing wings.
4) It's against the dogma of accepted safe diving practice. Like it or not, Pete, this is a major disadvantage.

Your spreader plate isn't necessarily less safe than just buying a small wing. I wish it was less safe, so I could attack it, because honestly I hate the idea just as much as roakey and omar. I'll give you credit, though, it's probably equally safe, assuming it doesn't intefere with the BC's valves in any way. However, when considering two solutions with equal safety, you should probably pick the one of lesser complexity. When considering two solutions of equal safety and equal complexity, you should probably pick the one endorsed by those more experienced than you. If you simply don't want to, I can accept that. roakey and omar, you probably should just accept it, too.

Why should you give up the guns and fall in line? Because, simply, standardization makes life easier. Because you know that, when you use standard gear, many other people agree on its safety. Because you don't have to trust your own conclusions, which will necessarily be less valuable than the unified conclusion of many other, more experienced people who solved the problem in a different way.

Frankly, Pete, I don't think you're a crazy, whacked-out, ludicrous unsafe diver for using your spreader plate. However, I do have to wonder why you're so eager to solve the problem in a very unusual way that provides zero advantages over the accepted solution, and some possible, heretofore unseen, disadvantages -- all to save a very small sum of money.

- Warren