JohnF
Guest
Dayum. I thought that thingy was a boom mike. You mean they don't have an in-water comms system?
OMS why all the flames?
- Thread starter nyresq
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Dayum. I thought that thingy was a boom mike. You mean they don't have an in-water comms system?
That's why you end the dive while you still have enough air to get you and your buddy safely to the surface.
They should realy start teaching this in entry level classes.
The worst place to be is above your buddy in his blind spot. They should teach this in entry level classes also.
The light communications you were tought for your night dive is a start but it's not much help without a suitable light.
Do they lay it on a little thick? There you were, in your instructors blind spot with a light to weak to communicate with and today you ask what if you requested air from some one who didn't have enough. You were effectively solo. If you would have had a problem then you would have been on your own. that's a very lose ineffective aplication of the buddy system. LOL And apparantly sans gas planning. Do you think it's too late to get a refund?
sasdasdaf
Guest
Agreed. There's a lot more to dive planning than "return to the boat with 500 psi".
You beat me to the light issue..
light communication requires a good light, much stronger than most new divers use.. in limited viz a 50w halogen or 10w hid is the minimum, and even this the light may only go a few feet.. there are two types of limited viz, 1 that the viz is obstructed and dar bu ;arge particles, you tend to be able to get your light to work better here, but limited viz due to heavy fine silt the light no matter how bright dies fast..
when you stayed with your buddies on this dive what were you guys doing.. were you just hanging along or were you all active trying to do something.. if everyone is willing to just cruise together or follow one person who is doing hunting it works, but as soon as more than one person wants dinner forget about staying together.. I am talking reality...
I have done dives where if I didn't HOLD my students BC I would have lost him... I remember one dive where at an arms length his flashlight was just a faint glow....
as to not having a pony, mikes point is valid.. new divers tend to use alot of gas, so there is probably a good chance that when one guy needs it the other guy is probably in a similiar situation.. There is no valid reason not to carry some type of backup for recreational divers.. tech divers should be carefully planning their dives and are much more experienced they shouldn't be running out of gas..
also consider the gas supply on the divers is is fine and 1 diver has a reg failure, the second guys gas supply under stress, the OOA guy may breathe too hard and now 2 people have a gas supply problem, or if they are newer divers they probably didn't buy the best regs and 2 stressed out divers may not be able to breathe off a lower performing reg at depth..
You always have to consider the WORSE situation that could happen and prevent that.. you can't count on everything being ok...I personally have seen INSTRUCTORS used to clear conditions (especially if they consider 40 ft bad viz), get paniced in poor viz conditions.. I remember rescuing a very experienced instructor because he never had to deal with 5ft viz and got lost and started panicing... We were on a broken up wreck, I was lobster hunting about 100yards from the upline when he passed me going the wrong direction with those BUG eyes(and God only knows where is buddy was at the time)... In the NE a free ascent definately isn't a good thing...
Usually most divers can handle a single problem, but someone who isn't self sufficient gets seperated, his stress level goes up, this can trigger harder breathing and maybe an OOA situation, having the second option may be enough even if its not used to give the person a feeling of comfort so he /she can keep themselves under control.
sasdasdaf
Guest
padiscubapro,
very good points.
however i would suggest that the first step to solve most of these problems you mention about new divers, is to get good training. good training and a good buddy should prevent all these problems from cascading and causing a real CF. if good training is not available, then these divers should not be attempting dives that are beyond their comfort level. for example, if one is not used to diving in vis less than 40ft, it's not surprising that one may panic in 5ft vis.
very good points.
however i would suggest that the first step to solve most of these problems you mention about new divers, is to get good training. good training and a good buddy should prevent all these problems from cascading and causing a real CF. if good training is not available, then these divers should not be attempting dives that are beyond their comfort level. for example, if one is not used to diving in vis less than 40ft, it's not surprising that one may panic in 5ft vis.
lragsac
Guest
But, but...that detachable remote valve knob thingy could be the answer to all my valve drill problems!! :mean:
JohnF
Guest
One for each valve?
John F
Let me get this right, you've seen people with poor buoyancy control so you know they wouldn't follow their training with resepect to proper use of a pony bottle???!?
Maybe you mean inexperienced divers will ignore protocol. In my experience, inexperienced divers do whatever you tell them to do, to the letter (or at least as well as they can). Divers with a little experience start to push the envelope. Not the real beginners (which are presumably the ones plowing along the bottom).
Sure. I use this as do a lot of people in my area. You see them all the time with one side connected to a single regulator and the other side not connected at all or with one side connected to a newish reg and the other side connected to old 2nd or 3rd or 4th-hand junk that the diver is using as his last resort (octopus). You also see many examples that are configured in such a way that you'd never be able to reach the valve handles with it on your back, let alone turn it off in time with a big freeflow.
As you know, most divers who dive doubles have to practice valve drills to learn the shutdown skills but you would suggest that just buying an H valve (which is harder to reach with your hands without loosening your bcd and pushing your whole scuba unit up higher on your back) is a better solution than a pony bottle. I would suggest that most people who have these things (H-valves) either couldn't find them to turn them off or couldn't do it in time when the poop was flying. By suggesting that the H valve is a better solution, you might even be endangering lives by convincing people to use what is, for many, a more complicated solution to a massive gas-loss problem.
In other words just having an H valve isn't a guarantee that people will use them correctly (your objection to using a pony) or that it will solve all your problems.
The real advantages to pony bottles are that the air is safe and it's simple to use. There are disadvantages too but I don't think they have anything to do with your buoyancy control and/or experience level (undesireable effects on trim, for example). But if you ask me I think they're a perfectly acceptable form of redundancy for bailout in non-overhead recreational diving.
I would agree in part with this. Good buddy skills are often a better solution than throwing gear at what is essentially a training problem. In that sense you could say that both a pony bottle and an H valve are solutions to the wrong problems. On the other hand, buddies do get separated, a buddy can make a mistake and not all of us have the luxury of always hand-picking a buddy with good skills or working on skills over the course of many dives (think tourist boat). In fact the first dive with someone new is often a big question-mark. In that sense I think self-sufficiency (ability to self rescue) as a starting point is essential.
After many many dives with my regular buddy I can say in all seriousness that he wears my pony on his back. But I don't think I would have said that after 10 dives and most certainly not on the first dive. In other words the buddy system isn't a cure-all either.
R..
RichLockyer
Guest
Come join me in California and I'll take you into some kelp forests where you would appreciate a long hose in an OOG situation:
1 - A direct ascent would mean an extremely difficult and hazardous surface crawl (not swim). Swimming only 5 feet under the kelp umbrella allows for actual swimming, and at that depth, gas lasts a long time, and you're never more than a 5 minute swim from the seaward edge of the kelp forest.
2 - Similarly, it is impossible for two divers to swim side by side while connected by a hose... single file is the only way through IF they are connected.
To see some of this beautiful diving, check out my friend Chris's site: http://www.underwaterplanet.com
Similar threads
