Obnoxious boaters suck!

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scubadivingsteve

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So based only on the picture and no assumption you are sure the boat drove to the flag. There is no way the flag was towed by the divers toward the boat. Picture only no accompanying statement from the photographer.
 

ScubaSteve

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So based only on the picture and no assumption you are sure the boat drove to the flag. There is no way the flag was towed by the divers toward the boat. Picture only no accompanying statement from the photographer.


Correct me if I am wrong but is it not still the responsibility of the boater to maintain the appropriate distance from the flag no matter what?
 

paulw

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This is where you and I disagree. The diver was NOT obeying the law. That flag is small - and the law clearly states a min size for a reason.

There are a lot of assumptions here - which is why I dont want to take part in the accusations or blame part of the conversation. If we stick to JUST THE ABSOLUTE proveable facts, based on the picture - they were both at fault and breaking the law. The boat encroached on the divers mark - and - the divers mark was to small.

So, without assuming anything - they both broke the law.

I bow to the fact that in strict interpretation of law they are both at fault, that is a fact but if that is the argument used in a court of law after a person in the water has been hit by a boat when a float and flag or buoy is present (correct size or not) the boat operator will not prevail and all involved will have to live with the result. I am not arguing the "LAW" I suggest we all do the right thing to protect others and in this case the boater is just wrong, on purpose or not he presents a clear danger.
 

manni-yunk

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I bow to the fact that in strict interpretation of law they are both at fault, that is a fact but if that is the argument used in a court of law after a person in the water has been hit by a boat when a float and flag or buoy is present (correct size or not) the boat operator will not prevail and all involved will have to live with the result. I am not arguing the "LAW" I suggest we all do the right thing to protect others and in this case the boater is just wrong, on purpose or not he presents a clear danger.


Fair enough.

I just wanted to focus on what we could prove was a fact from the picture. As to the boater being wrong - Im not completely sure without knowing a lot more. Anything else is assuming, but I can think of just as many scenarios where the boater did nothing wrong, as I can where the boater was grossly negligent. I dont like to assume anything unless I have to!!!
 

scubadivingsteve

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Correct me if I am wrong but is it not still the responsibility of the boater to maintain the appropriate distance from the flag no matter what?

How could he if he OPERATED the boat in an effort to retreat he would violate the statute. None of the laws are perfect and there is one of the reasons LEO'S choose to enforce what they want to. This is also known as officers discretion. Yes the boat operator has a much larger chance of injuring the diver than the diver injuring the boat which is why the boat operators are ticketed and not the divers.
 

00wabbit

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It seems that there needs a be a bigger flag and something like "warning - stay back 150ft" or something like that printed on it.

Maybe if people see the distance printed on enough flags they will get the idea.


THe other option would be 6 flares mounted to the bouy in different directions with a 15ft pull trigger underwater. If you are doing your safety stop and there is a boat above you can send them a warning :)
Or maybe an airhorn would do. At least you could annoy them until they left.
 

Kunk35

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I've been diving in this lake many times and I have to chime in. First, and this is one of the major issues involving lake diving/boat operating, is the fact that boaters should be required to have some sort of basic knowledge of boating rules including what a dive flag/float is and the proper distances that are required by law. That will NEVER happen. Not sure why, but it won't. As a result boaters put us in danger.

As for this particular boat in the picture, he is absolutely in the wrong. I don't care what size that flag is, the boater is in the wrong. And the law says nothing about being under power or not under power. It also doesn't state that they can be in proximity if diver pulls the flag toward them. They have to give way, plain and simple. The dive flag might be a bit small, but the big yellow tube that plainly states "Diver Below" should have been the guys second clue. I've seen first hand what boaters and jet skiers do at Lake Murray, and especially Broken Bow, (also in Oklahoma), when they see a dive flag. Dive flags are boater idiot magnets. So much so I've contemplated diving without them altogether and take my chances with paying my own tickets. I've never done that, but I have to admit I have considered it.

I will say that the rangers that patrol Lake Murray are very fair on both sides of this issue but they are very strict in enforcing the 150' rule and the 100 yards from boat ramp rule. At the very least, this picture should be sent to the boat owner with a note educating them on the proper laws.

There was a time while diving that my perfectly legal 21x24 flag blew off the rod and sunk. (it was very windy that day) The patrolman patiently waited, (within the 150' distance) for me to surface. He of course pointed out the infraction and instead of giving me a ticket for no dive flag (which he absolutely could have), he used his boat as the diver down support and let me retrieve the flag. Luckily I found it rather quickly and we all chuckled about it. My point with this story is, the rangers are very fair and take common sense into their assessments of infractions. Yes the law is the law but it's a good thing there are humans involved to help interpret.

On another note, I have to say, I rarely venture here to Scuba board anymore and I realize I'm taking a big chance posting. The reason I don't check out the boards is the attitudes I see. Last I understood, we're all divers or we wouldn't be hanging out here. So that common bond should at least command some mutual respect. But all too often, simple threads like this one brings out the beast in the person behind the keyboard and they type like they don't give the least bit of respect to others. It doesn't seem to matter what the subject is. I could post a picture of a certain bc setup, or dive flag, or whatever, and it's just a matter of time before the attacks start. Makes me wonder why we all even bother to read or try to communicate this way.

Kory
 

diver 85

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Quoting from post #25......
"8. "Diver's flag" means a red flag not less than twenty (20) inches by
twenty-four (24) inches with a four-inch white stripe running from one
upper corner to a diagonal lower corner, and such flag is used to
indicate a submerged diver;"

What is Texas's size?........lol, must be even bigger, I mean everything in Texas is bigger---or something like that...............tia.......
 

Bill Parker

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On another note, I have to say, I rarely venture here to Scuba board anymore and I realize I'm taking a big chance posting. The reason I don't check out the boards is the attitudes I see. Last I understood, we're all divers or we wouldn't be hanging out here. So that common bond should at least command some mutual respect. But all too often, simple threads like this one brings out the beast in the person behind the keyboard and they type like they don't give the least bit of respect to others. It doesn't seem to matter what the subject is. I could post a picture of a certain bc setup, or dive flag, or whatever, and it's just a matter of time before the attacks start. Makes me wonder why we all even bother to read or try to communicate this way.

Tell me about it. I wish we could have a discussion board that required
people to use their real name (not a handle) and have a photo of
themselves as a profile photo. That would discourage attack comments
since they would no longer be anonymous.

And to the posters that think the boater was driving correctly you
should Google "boat propeller injuries" and look at the images. Just
don't do it on a full stomach or before bedtime. The images can be
quite disturbing. Props are deadly. People have lost limbs, had their
guts ripped out, and had their heads chopped in half. Perhaps then
you'll understand why boaters need to maintain some distance. There's
plenty of lake for everyone to share.
 

manni-yunk

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And to the posters that think the boater was driving correctly you
should Google "boat propeller injuries" and look at the images. Just
don't do it on a full stomach or before bedtime. The images can be
quite disturbing. Props are deadly. People have lost limbs, had their
guts ripped out, and had their heads chopped in half. Perhaps then
you'll understand why boaters need to maintain some distance. There's
plenty of lake for everyone to share.



All the more reason to carry an appropriately sized dive flag.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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