novice questions about emergency air

[jackdav]

I have seen pony cyllinders and spare air for sale in different places, and I really like the idea of having some last ditch air in case of an emergency.... I just have some questions....What are the relative merits of the 3 cf spare air and the 6 cf pony bottles? And how are they typically carried (the pony's and the spare airs)? I gather that one just grabs the spare air and breaths on it in an emergency..... what do you need to do to access the pony? Does it require its own regulator (1st & 2nd stages?)? I really like the idea of having a reserve breathing supply, esp for my dive buddy and spouse.... so what's with em?

Best Regards,
Jack in Phoenix

 

[The Chairman]

Hey Jackdav,

I was content to be a mere OW diver until my kids and wife wanted to enter the sport. I thought long and hard about and actually added some equipment, including a 19cf pony bottle. I think I can safely say it was a "panic buy" in that I have yet to use it for them, and will probably NEVER need it for them as cautiously as I dive.

You see, I made an even bigger commitment and went and did Rescue Diver and ultimately Divemaster becuase I just wanted to be prepared. I guess it was the Boy Scout in me that did that. When I compare the two... a pony bottle or advanced training, I am sure glad I did the training. I think I check their air more often then they do (grin). Its a continual habit for me to manage the entire dive from start to finish, and without the additional training I would be lost.

As for the pony bottle??? Sure, I use it! Whenever I head into deep water, or when I start doing my cavern cert, you will see it clipped to my primary. Yes, it has it's own regulator setup and pressure guage. No, I have yet to need it with well over a 100 dives to my credit. Safety is an attitude... I don't push the envelope with family and friends!

:tease:

 

[Lost Yooper]

Hey Jack,

It wouldn't surprise me if I come out with another minority view point here, but it seems to me that to carry a bailout bottle (pony) is possibly a complex solution to an un-complex problem that shouldn't exist if basic OW diving principles are adhered to.

Here's some cons of a pony you may want to consider:

1. Additional task loading
2. Potential failure point (i.e. entanglement)
3. Cost (bottle, reg, pressure guage, etc)
4. Takes away from a streamlined configuration.

You can avoid the need for a pony by doing the following things:

1. Diving with a competant buddy.
2. Proper gas management.
3. Diving within recreational limits and recommendations, and within your own personnal limits.

I kind of think that if you're up to the level where you think you need a pony, then what you may actually find to be a better solution is a set of doubles with an isolation manifold. This doesn't necessarily mean getting a set of PST 120's, but rather assembling a set of double 50's or 65's. With this set up, you have the best of all worlds as it pertains to redundancy, volume, and a streamlined configuration.

OK, just in case you get convinced you need a pony, I strongly suggest carrying it under your left arm and not on the back tank.

Good luck.

Mike

 

[Friggincold]

....I agree with LY,proper planning and gas management make the pony bottle a thing of the past...Friggincold

 

[Hawk]

I carry a spare air just in case something ever goes wrong with my reg or for some reason, I run out (shouldn't ever happen) of air. The thing takes up almost no space and it just may help some time. I hope I never need it, but as far as I'm concerned it is cheap insurance.



Later, Hawk.

 

[scubabunny]

Actually, watching your air IS the best way to go..but sometimes circumstances make you use more air than you would expect (strong currents, heavy surf, cool marine life). I think an extra independant air souce is the safest way to dive.

Unfortunately, while the Spare Air is a good idea, it holds enough air to get you from depth to the surface...no stops. They are not meant to be a "redundant" air source, but an emergency air source. I would suggest getting at least a 13cuft pony bottle. They are fairly small and manageable. And, once you add the cost of the bottle and a simple reg, it about equals the Spare Air (3cuft retails for over $300 here). Ok..a little more..but being able to make a safety stop is more important than an extra $75 bucks, in my opinion.

As for wear to wear it...LYs answer sounds like the best idea!

 

[Divemstr13]

Scubabunny has the right idea. I have found alot of uses for my pony. They are great for checking out the prop., unsnagging an anchor, or when advancing in your diving using it for a deco bottle or a staging bottle on the line. The cu ft in a spare air at depth is not adequate in my opinon and you fill it up off your tank. Worse than that I have caught people filling their spare air off someone else's tank.Hummmm. If you can you should try to have a few extra cu ft for a saftey stop, esp. keeping in mind increased air consumtion in an emergency.

 

[Diverl]

I completely agree with Lost Yooper. The reasons that he has given for avoiding a pony bottle are excellent. If you feel that you still want more redundancy and don’t want to go with doubles or cant afford it right away, I would suggest that you get an H valve. Many K valves can be converted to an H valve with little or no effort. An H valve simply puts another valve on the tank allowing for another regulator set to be attached. In the event of a regulator failure, hose break etc you simply shut off the one valve and breath off of the other regulator set.

If you run out of gas in the tank you are still in big trouble. This is why gas management and the buddy system are so important. While this setup is not as cumbersome as using a pony bottle it still requires a lot of practice to use properly. You must know which regulator you have on which valve or you may shut off the wrong valve. Just being able to reach the valves and turn them off while they are on you back takes a bit of practice.

If you are interested in an h valve or manifold set up (For doubles) I am sure that the people on this board can give you more information than you can handle.

 

[jackdav]

I am sure that air management and the buddy system are the absolute best first steps to take for safety. But mecanical failure not only can happen, but inevitably do. As a rank beginner, I can not speak from ANY great experience...... but it just seemed to me that an independent air source cannot possibly hurt and might be a great thing .... so I wanted to know HOW the pony tanks work and are used..... While taking lessons my instructor surprised me by turning off my air ......... my buddy didn't notice right away when I signalled "out of air" and began to swim in his direction .... and when he did notice, he got flustered and handed me his inflator hose..... finally I seized his safe second and got some air, but not until after I had a bit of real panic. Thinking of this experience and how it might have played out at 80 feet rather than 12 feet is what makes me think that an emergency air source might be a great comfort just to have. Thanks a million to all the kind folks who responded.
Fond Regards,
Jack

 

[Bobb]

Jackdav,
I agree with Hawk....I always clip on my spare air...it's only a 2.7 cu.ft. but, it's better than no air at all...I have used it on a few occasions, just to try it out at varying depths...someone stated that it might get you to the surface w/o a safety stop...quite possibly true...but at least you're on the surface...
Now the really scary part is the people who consider it as "extra" air, to use when their tank/s are empty, and just go about their merry way....
just my 3 cents worth..(inflation)