Use of Scuba unit for Fire/Haz-Mat Escape

[John C. Ratliff]

I have been in touch with another person, Scott who posts here, and in one thread described that I have two scuba units upstairs for use in case of a fire that would cut my wife and I off from exiting downstairs in our house. It would give time for us to access and deploy the emergency ladder we have at a window in case there was a lot of smoke. This was recommended my a video from one of the fire chiefs here in our Beaverton, Oregon area. Close the doors, and await rescue; but instead I figured it would be better to have a method of actually exiting the building. The scuba unit could give us time to deploy this Safety First Escape Ladder.

Well, he thought that was a great idea, and then I recalled that I had used my scuba unit in a real fire at our home. In the 1980s, we got a smoke alarm, opened the garage door to smoke in the garage. I had my wife, Chris call 911, while I entered the garage holding my breath, assembled a single 72 with a single hose regulator, turned on the air, got a few breaths, got my dive mask out, put it on and looked around breathing off the scuba. I found that our refrigerator was on fire. I got some leather gloves on, opened the garage door, disconnected the refrigerator from the 110 volt outlet (the motor was on fire), and wheeled it out the front garage door. This happened just as the fire department rolled up. They described it as seeing the garage door open, a lot of smoke come out, and a guy in diving gear wheeling the still flaming refrigerator out onto the driveway.

When I described this to Scott, he said that he had been a member of an ERT, and had a scuba unit in his truck that he kept just in case of a hazmat problem without the hazmat gear. I explained to him the APF (assigned protection factors) of various forms of respiratory protection (half-mask, 10; full-face mask, 50; SCBA, 10,000) and explained that the APF could only be used if the concentration was known of the contaminant. Otherwise, it was assumed to be IDLH, or “Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health,” and only a SCBA with positive pressure (and a APF of 10,000) could be used by ERTs.

https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/publications/3352-APF-respirators.pdf

I also told him that I believed that a diving scuba unit with a mask would be at least as protective as a positive pressure SCBA, as the potential for a contaminant to enter the air from a mouthpiece was virtually zero (or water would get in too). However, the scuba units should be used only for escape or extremely limited preventive measures (such as me pushing the refrigerator out the garage door), as the scuba unit's mouthpiece could be lost if something happened to the person. The fire department/Haz-mat team SCBA's have full-face masks, and will stay in place if the person is incapacitated.

We are curious if any others on the ScubaBoard forum have used their scuba unit in a non-diving situation where they needed an air source? Anyone put their scuba unit where it could be used in an emergency?

SeaRat
John C. Ratliff, CSP(Retired), CIH(2006-2017),* MSPH
*CSP = Certified Safety Professional; CIH = Certified Industrial Hygienist

 

[bubblemonkey2]

The worst I've done is to paint a boat indoors while breathing from an LP50

 

[Waterwulf]

It was about 1978 or so, about 4 am, North Florida, train derailment, several tankers of Chlorine gas broke open, Sheriff's Department got the word and blocked the road off at both ends....but not before one man got thru in his van. He was on the way to a special dive school in Pensacola. He drove into a weird yellow cloud and his engine quit. He pulled over and opened his door to get out but immediately slammed it shut when he got a whiff of what was out there.

He climbed in the back and hooked up a tank to breath off of. Then he put on his mask and purged it because whatever gas it was, it burned his eyes. He put one tank on his back and one tank in each hand because he didn't know how far the cloud had spread and took off down the road back the way he drove in.

Meantime, a mile down the road, Sheriff's Deputies has set up a road block and were watching a wall of yellow gas about a hundred yards mile away. They were ready to run for it if it moved towards them. Then, one of them screamed "Holy fecal matter" and pointed at the yellow loud. A huge humpbacked one eyed monster had just walked out of the cloud. They could hear it hissing with every breath.

This was swamp area and Black Magic was around. Several Deputies wanted to shoot it but cooler heads prevailed. (This was per one of the Deputies involved) Finally, they realized that it was a guy wearing SCUBA gear and breathing canned air. He survived and nobody lost their lives on that one. However, if not for his air tanks, he would have died for sure.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Waterbury,

I have confirmed this event:

Deadly mystery: the Youngstown train disaster of 1978
It should have been a ho-hum trip, one of hundreds engineer Ray Shores had made between Panama City and Dothan, Alabama, for Bay Line Railways. It was 2 am Sunday, Feb. 26, 1978, and Shores' 142-car, five-locomotive train was headed back to Panama City at a steady 40 mph.

As the train appoached Youngstown, Florida--a tiny, tight-knit community in northern Bay County--a blanket of fog lay low, obscuring the tracks as if the train were chugging towards eternity itself. Shores eased up on the throttle.

Suddenly: the unthinkable.

In Shores' ear shrieked the unmistakable, grinding, metal-on-metal sound of locomotive wheels flying off the rails. "The train took a sudden drop--about two feet," Shores recalled later, "and the next thing I knew the locomotive was in the sand." The train's cars careened wildly off the tracks, piling upon one another like a child's pick-up sticks.

What happened next seemed like a scene from a horror movie. One of the derailed tank cars overturned and ruptured. From the aperture hissed a sickly yellow-green smoke--a highly poisonous brew of deadly chlorine gas--and a cloud of it began enveloping the area like acid snow...

… At the scene, emergency medical technicians scrambled to save residents and passing motorists who were gagging on fumes. One man, stuck in a stalled car, had the presence of mind to grab his scuba gear from the back seat; the precious oxygen saved his life. A heliocopter from nearby Tyndall Air Force Base lowered a sling and plucked members of the train crew, including Shores, to safety.

All told, the derailment resulted in eight fatalities and nearly 100 injuries, many to the rescue workers themselves...

Deadly mystery: the Youngstown train disaster of 1978

It should have been a ho-hum trip, one of hundreds engineer Ray Shores had made between Panama City and Dothan, Alabama, for Bay Line Railwa...

floridahistorian5.blogspot.com

This is quite a story, and pretty much verified my evaluation that scuba equipment can be used as an escape from an IDLH environment. He did it, although this article doesn’t name the person. That would be nice to know.

SeaRat

 

[Cthippo]

The reverse of this, I've heard anecdotally that SCBA can be used for water rescue down to a depth of 15 feet in an emergency. I remember reading about a kid stuck in a flooded storm drain the rescued on SCBA because it was all they had.

 

[lowwall]

...in one thread described that I have two scuba units upstairs for use in case of a fire that would cut my wife and I off from exiting downstairs in our house.

I was going to ask what size wing you used, but then you had to ruin the joke with your photo.

Speaking of the photo, have you thought about draping an old scuba mask over each tank valve? It would offer some eye protection and, if your wife isn't an experienced diver, maybe keep her from involuntarily inhaling through her nose instead of the reg.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

I was going to ask what size wing you used, but then you had to ruin the joke with your photo.

Speaking of the photo, have you thought about draping an old scuba mask over each tank valve? It would offer some eye protection and, if your wife isn't an experienced diver, maybe keep her from involuntarily inhaling through her nose instead of the reg.

We have masks in the area, but I like your idea. That will happen tonight.

SeaRat

 

[John C. Ratliff]

The reverse of this, I've heard anecdotally that SCBA can be used for water rescue down to a depth of 15 feet in an emergency. I remember reading about a kid stuck in a flooded storm drain the rescued on SCBA because it was all they had.

Yes, they can, but SCBAs of the older type, with the regulator on the belt and a hose to the mask, will free flow if the rescuer is not almost horizontal in the water. The mask with a curved lens will give a very wide-view, and that can be disorienting. This distortion can also cause vertigo if the head is moved quickly. I know, as in the 1980s I made that evaluation for the Winston-Dillard Fire District’s Fire Chief. There are a few SCBAs made for use either in air or water (AGA Divator, if my memory is correct). The newer SCBAs could be used in water without the free flow, but would probably still have the distortion. This could be overcome by simply closing one’s eyes (or if in zero visibility, it’s not a problem).

Our story | Interspiro

Since the 1920’s we have developed respiratory protection for non-breathable environments above and below ground.

interspiro.com

But this is a great obsrvation.

SeaRat

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

I have been in touch with another person, Scott who posts here, and in one thread described that I have two scuba units upstairs for use in case of a fire that would cut my wife and I off from exiting downstairs in our house. It would give time for us to access and deploy the emergency ladder we have at a window in case there was a lot of smoke. This was recommended my a video from one of the fire chiefs here in our Beaverton, Oregon area. Close the doors, and await rescue; but instead I figured it would be better to have a method of actually exiting the building. The scuba unit could give us time to deploy this Safety First Escape Ladder.

Well, he thought that was a great idea, and then I recalled that I had used my scuba unit in a real fire at our home. In the 1980s, we got a smoke alarm, opened the garage door to smoke in the garage. I had my wife, Chris call 911, while I entered the garage holding my breath, assembled a single 72 with a single hose regulator, turned on the air, got a few breaths, got my dive mask out, put it on and looked around breathing off the scuba. I found that our refrigerator was on fire. I got some leather gloves on, opened the garage door, disconnected the refrigerator from the 110 volt outlet (the motor was on fire), and wheeled it out the front garage door. This happened just as the fire department rolled up. They described it as seeing the garage door open, a lot of smoke come out, and a guy in diving gear wheeling the still flaming refrigerator out onto the driveway.

When I described this to Scott, he said that he had been a member of an ERT, and had a scuba unit in his truck that he kept just in case of a hazmat problem without the hazmat gear. I explained to him the APF (assigned protection factors) of various forms of respiratory protection (half-mask, 10; full-face mask, 50; SCBA, 10,000) and explained that the APF could only be used if the concentration was known of the contaminant. Otherwise, it was assumed to be IDLH, or “Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health,” and only a SCBA with positive pressure (and a APF of 10,000) could be used by ERTs.

https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/publications/3352-APF-respirators.pdf

I also told him that I believed that a diving scuba unit with a mask would be at least as protective as a positive pressure SCBA, as the potential for a contaminant to enter the air from a mouthpiece was virtually zero (or water would get in too). However, the scuba units should be used only for escape or extremely limited preventive measures (such as me pushing the refrigerator out the garage door), as the scuba unit's mouthpiece could be lost if something happened to the person. The fire department/Haz-mat team SCBA's have full-face masks, and will stay in place if the person is incapacitated.

We are curious if any others on the ScubaBoard forum have used their scuba unit in a non-diving situation where they needed an air source? Anyone put their scuba unit where it could be used in an emergency?

SeaRat
John C. Ratliff, CSP(Retired), CIH(2006-2017),* MSPH
*CSP = Certified Safety Professional; CIH = Certified Industrial Hygienist

Yes, John, as you have mentioned the idea came to me when I held a job driving a commercial rig back around ‘91. Many facilities use chlorine and Hydogen Sulfide in their processing. These are mainly paper plants. From delivering materials and picking up the finished product to ship. Many times I found myself ‘staged’ in a queue waiting to load or waiting to weigh out. Although not likely, a release of any of these gasses would cause a hazardous situation in where escape w/o a source of clean air could be fatal. I started carrying a pony tank, regulator and mask for an escape if it becomes necessary. Then I thought of smoke hazards at a time when extensive brush and forest fires were burning in Florida and South Georgia and having the wind quickly shift over a major road that I was driving. A thought that was on my mind as well as a possible water rescue if it became needed. A fire captain mentioned that was not a bad idea and could make a difference in an emergency.

I also worked in haz-mat response for an environmental company in the late ‘90s here in Northeast North Carolina. At that time we were all trained in 40 hr OSHA haz-mat training with SCBA and had the equipment to be able to handle these situations. The SCUBA pony wasn’t a part of it but the ability to have access to it made it all the more secure for me. I even went as far to have a tank w/octo and masks within easy reach between the bucket seats within traveling long distance in our van when my wife and I we’re driving. Not something everyone thinks of. Folks with SCUBA could have gear ready and available in case of fire. Train derailments such as last year in East Palestine, ect. to provide an escape option in unforeseen instances.

…just a thought and experiences to toss out on the discussion table. Unlike John, I never had the opportunity to have to use mine, but it was available and now I have set mine up again to be able to do to same. Excellent idea to pass along, John.

Scott G. Bonser, PADI DM since ‘84, Harrellsville, NC

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

Yes, they can, but SCBAs of the older type, with the regulator on the belt and a hose to the mask, will free flow if the rescuer is not almost horizontal in the water. The mask with a curved lens will give a very wide-view, and that can be disorienting. This distortion can also cause vertigo if the head is moved quickly. I know, as in the 1980s I made that evaluation for the Winston-Dillard Fire District’s Fire Chief. There are a few SCBAs made for use either in air or water (AGA Divator, if my memory is correct). The newer SCBAs could be used in water without the free flow, but would probably still have the distortion. This could be overcome by simply closing one’s eyes (or if in zero visibility, it’s not a problem).

Our story | Interspiro

Since the 1920’s we have developed respiratory protection for non-breathable environments above and below ground.

interspiro.com

But this is a great obsrvation.

SeaRat

Interesting. On a different subject but close. I have tried FFMs as a possibility for no MP diving and voice communication. The Divator and other masks really distort my vision w/curved window. This maybe as I am completely blind in my left eye. I chose the ‘Spectrum’ model FFM as it won’t do that for me….not a part of this thread, but just saying…