Use of Scuba unit for Fire/Haz-Mat Escape

[broncobowsher]

In Phoenix we had someone use scuba gear to escape there burning house.

Burning Man: An Attorney Says He Escaped His Blazing Home Using Scuba Gear; Now Hes Charged with Arson

Shortly before Phoenix Fire Department investigators arrested Michael Marin for allegedly torching his plush Biltmore Estates mansion, he spoke about the fire he says almost stole his life. "Here's the unvarnished version from the horse's mouth," Marin told New Times in the living room of his...

www.phoenixnewtimes.com

Then they were arrested for arson. Then...

Arizona Businessman Convicted Of Arson Appears To Commit Suicide In Courtroom

Michael Marin, an Arizona businessman who died minutes after he was convicted of arson, appeared to have put something in his mouth while in the court room, sparking an investigation into whether the millionaire had poisoned himself. Marin had been convicted of burning down his mansion in the...

abcnews.go.com

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

Well... the smart choice was to remove trees around the house and have a water tank and sprinkles on the roof and around the place. It could have been much worse had the house not been properly prepped.

Lots of possible thoughts entering the mind of someone facing such a situation. The SCUBA was definitely a ‘lifesaver’ for smoke inhalation but the ability to use it in a ‘cool water’ pool thwarted the heat intensity hazards as well. No matter how far brush is clear from a safe haven, safety can be compromised by wind generated by weather or the intensity of the fire itself. A good call by the pool owner and glad it turned out favorably.

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

I have used an old 2stage hooked to shop air, to weld inside a water tank, that was tarred, we cleaned as much with a wire wheel. But no matter what, you have to burn the residual tar out.
No googles. I am a natural mouth breather so it wasn't to bad.


I also bought a BP60 rebreather from a guy that wanted to use it as fire escape...
But he came to realize he had no clue of the equipment he owned.

I can see a lot of missing details in ‘This’ response. Was the ‘Shop air’ filtered to the point of it being safe to breathe? I have gotten sick on ‘bad air’ from a County Fire Department air compressor that had had some kind of malfunction. I had to lift my dive partner out onto our boat standing on a sandbar as he had thrown-up so much from the bad air he couldn’t get out on his own. I had a bad headache. Keith contacted the Fire Captain and let him know to check and empty any filled tanks and get the compressor fixed. It didn’t take but a few seconds to turn a nice ‘clam and oyster’ collecting dive into a real nasty mess. We were not ‘good’ for about two days. I felt OK, but Keith called his family doctor after he called F D.

Please be Super Careful with tank fills and ‘hose-supplied’ air sources. They can be bad news.

As for using a rebreather…I am not so sure that they can be used for but a short time above water. Positive pressure through a SCUBA setup seems more a likely way to get clean air wherever it may be needed. …rebreather gurus, please contribute your thoughts if you get to read this post. I have no RB training whatsoever.

Scott G. Bonser

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

In Phoenix we had someone use scuba gear to escape there burning house.

Burning Man: An Attorney Says He Escaped His Blazing Home Using Scuba Gear; Now Hes Charged with Arson

Shortly before Phoenix Fire Department investigators arrested Michael Marin for allegedly torching his plush Biltmore Estates mansion, he spoke about the fire he says almost stole his life. "Here's the unvarnished version from the horse's mouth," Marin told New Times in the living room of his...

www.phoenixnewtimes.com

Then they were arrested for arson. Then...

Arizona Businessman Convicted Of Arson Appears To Commit Suicide In Courtroom

Michael Marin, an Arizona businessman who died minutes after he was convicted of arson, appeared to have put something in his mouth while in the court room, sparking an investigation into whether the millionaire had poisoned himself. Marin had been convicted of burning down his mansion in the...

abcnews.go.com

EGADS, I wonder what arsonist was thinking to attempt this one. To actually ‘cause’ a haz-mat situation just invites ‘mistakes’ ….sometimes deadly ones. …and to possibly take poison to ‘bail’ in the C R. …sounds like a ‘not-so-stable’ individual. I agree S R. ‘Sad’…

 

[high_order1]

The reverse of this, I've heard anecdotally that SCBA can be used for water rescue down to a depth of 15 feet in an emergency. I remember reading about a kid stuck in a flooded storm drain the rescued on SCBA because it was all they had.

I have pool dived with multiple brands of SCBA.
Back in the day when you could have switched demand mode, you just needed to flip it to positive pressure. I don't really recall any of them free flowing.

As for using a rebreather…I am not so sure that they can be used for but a short time above water.

It depends. There are rebreathers designed for surface work. They have a component in some of them that you put a frozen device in. Others I have seen (for oil rig or industrial escape) I guess it just gets hot. Only good for 10 minutes or so though.


A couple of points here;

Contaminated ambient air is not your only hazard in a fire. You could very easily get burned. I have been in fires where it was uncomfortably acceptable laying on the floor, but just a couple of feet up it was melting the plastic items on the shelves.

Where you might otherwise be more conservative in your behavior, you may be lulled into remaining too long or taking other risks because you believe you have a patent source of air.

The second issue is hazmat / wmd events. I am very surprised at the multiple chlorine discussions. When airborne chlorine contacts the moisture in the air it forms an acid. I have seen releases; it peels the paint off the walls, ruins concrete and kills plants and animals.

If you don't have any skin protection, you're probably not going to make it. Dermal exposure, especially with broken skin, is listed for pretty much every threat agent and toxic product out there. It is, after all, your largest organ.

I do not have SCBA nor SCUBA for home (or, hotel) emergencies. What I do have for my wife and I are escape respirators. Little red box. Inside is a hooded respirator. The hood is fire resistant, so no facial burns, no clip for our noses, no burnt hair. Also is a pair of ove' gloves. I can grab a door handle, manipulate things, and do what I have to do to get my family out, and even perhaps consider helping others or mitigating the situation. (shrugs) I have options.

I do own my own SCBA, a couple of different kits in fact to address a few different mission sets. But I have trained with them, am aware of their limitations, and... it is what it is. I also own a PAPR and about a half dozen air purifying respirators as well. No one golfs with just one club.

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

I have pool dived with multiple brands of SCBA.
Back in the day when you could have switched demand mode, you just needed to flip it to positive pressure. I don't really recall any of them free flowing.

It depends. There are rebreathers designed for surface work. They have a component in some of them that you put a frozen device in. Others I have seen (for oil rig or industrial escape) I guess it just gets hot. Only good for 10 minutes or so though.


A couple of points here;

Contaminated ambient air is not your only hazard in a fire. You could very easily get burned. I have been in fires where it was uncomfortably acceptable laying on the floor, but just a couple of feet up it was melting the plastic items on the shelves.

Where you might otherwise be more conservative in your behavior, you may be lulled into remaining too long or taking other risks because you believe you have a patent source of air.

The second issue is hazmat / wmd events. I am very surprised at the multiple chlorine discussions. When airborne chlorine contacts the moisture in the air it forms an acid. I have seen releases; it peels the paint off the walls, ruins concrete and kills plants and animals.

If you don't have any skin protection, you're probably not going to make it. Dermal exposure, especially with broken skin, is listed for pretty much every threat agent and toxic product out there. It is, after all, your largest organ.

I do not have SCBA nor SCUBA for home (or, hotel) emergencies. What I do have for my wife and I are escape respirators. Little red box. Inside is a hooded respirator. The hood is fire resistant, so no facial burns, no clip for our noses, no burnt hair. Also is a pair of ove' gloves. I can grab a door handle, manipulate things, and do what I have to do to get my family out, and even perhaps consider helping others or mitigating the situation. (shrugs) I have options.

I do own my own SCBA, a couple of different kits in fact to address a few different mission sets. But I have trained with them, am aware of their limitations, and... it is what it is. I also own a PAPR and about a half dozen air purifying respirators as well. No one golfs with just one club.

Good point. Thanks for the input. The conditions have to be ‘just right’ to use your SCUBA as an escape tool, but as you mentioned it’s not something to be overly confident with. It may be the only alternative. Good idea….check into the other personal rescue devices you mentioned.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Definitely not a rescue or a life or death scenario but just last month I used my 19 pony on an old conshelf and old mask in my crawlspace to apply some copper based carpenter ant control spray that is some fairly noxious stuff.

 

[high_order1]

Definitely not a rescue or a life or death scenario but just last month I used my 19 pony on an old conshelf and old mask in my crawlspace to apply some copper based carpenter ant control spray that is some fairly noxious stuff.

Here's the issue with this:

What happens if you get copper fungicide on your skin?


This product is irritating to the skin. Depending on the duration of contact, symptoms will include reddening, discomfort, irritation, and possible tissue damage. Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause skin irritation or allergic skin sensitization reaction. Ingestion of this product is unlikely.

You were basically in a confined space taking a bath in the vapor cloud.

I'm not telling you that you made a poor decision. (I make enough of my own). I am just saying, if you knew that you could get poisoned via your skin, would you have done it still?

A lot of people don't realize the hazards present. A lot of people get their livers and kidneys messed up, too.

Some agents can penetrate the materials the hoses and mask skirts are composed of (silicone and EPDM, for instance).

Generally, live agent exposure for some hazmat or wmd, they toss the polymer components, because the stuff gets in, then next time it gets hot, it off gasses back out. They are making special compartments on firetrucks now, when they are done with the fire, their outer garments go in there to reduce their cancer rate.

 

[high_order1]

Good point. Thanks for the input. The conditions have to be ‘just right’ to use your SCUBA as an escape tool, but as you mentioned it’s not something to be overly confident with. It may be the only alternative. Good idea….check into the other personal rescue devices you mentioned.

definitely do!
I could have anything I want for the bedside. I intentionally choose that dinky little firemask. It answers almost every use case except for if the respirable air is too oxygen deficient.

I even have a surface air escape bottle! I like the firemask better. I can't baby most of my kit, and I don't trust fiberglas wrapped bottles. I've seen what compressed air can do when you disrespect it.

I will say, SCUBA is different than SCBA. You bang that tank into a lot of stuff, and it gets banged into you. It is frustrating, especially if it's not something you do regularly.

 

[happy-diver]

It was obviously intense since it melted the fence.

Not particularly intense, it seems the blaze skipped over you can see the scrub became alight, it burned
blackening the trunks of the trees but didn't take the fine branches and leaves plenty of stuff that hasn't
caught alight plastic pool cover concrete deck riverpebbles and what may be dead leaves deck furniture

The fence is black that's paint where painted metals subjected to fire or heat become grey coloured with
the destuction of the aluminium pool fence panel and not the steel post caused by more than likely by a
burning wooden or plastic structure, housing pool accessories, chemicals


The biggest issue for humans with these blazes is latent heat not burning

It's summer it is hot there is burning but always get dressed in the most of your thickest non flamables

Before you grab the hose to wet yourself down before you fight the fire or before you jump in the pool