Not understanding the long hose thing

[elan]

Be careful, that old J valve can kill you.

And the yellow cup is an entanglement hazard

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not for him it wasn't. He's probably sitting back with a cold beer thoroughly enjoying all of this.

For sure ... that's what trolls do.

fishoutawater is now on my Ignore list ... I don't care much for trolls ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Bronson]

The long hose is for your protection as a panicked diver will take your reg out of your mouth and that is the long hose that they take and you place your spare that is on a short bungie.

 

[Blackwood]

what?

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Sorry, my five year old must have learned how to log on.....

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The long hose is for your protection as a panicked diver will take your reg out of your mouth and that is the long hose that they take and you place your spare that is on a short bungie.

I wonder how many people who have posted about what a panicked diver will do have ever had to deal with one?

I have ... here's how it went down.

The diver didn't panic because he was out of air. He panicked because he got water in his mask. So the first thing that happened is the mask somehow ended up off his face and sinking to the bottom. Next, he rejected his reg. He didn't attempt to take mine at all ... in fact, he flailed furiously as I was trying to give him mine ... all he wanted was the surface, and it didn't matter to him whether or not a reg was involved. Problem is he was holding his breath ... so shooting to the surface would've killed him. I had to hang onto him and keep him from ascending until I somehow got a reg in his mouth ... all while he was flailing around trying to get away from me and ripping off my gear in the process. I finally got a reg in his mouth, got him to breathe out (they can only hold it in so long, after all), and then we both bolted like hell for the surface. BTW - I was able to hold onto him just fine, DESPITE the fact that the reg I shoved into his mouth was attached to a seven-foot hose. Once on the surface, I dropped his weights, got his BCD inflated ... which, by the way, doesn't happen anywhere near as smoothly as that fake "victim" you practiced on in Resue class ... and as soon as he realized he wasn't gonna drown he calmed right down, looked at me, and said ... "I can't believe I just did that".

I took him to shore and went back later for all the gear we'd left laying on the bottom.

Moral of the story is that those of you who keep talking about what a panicked diver "will do" don't know what you're talking about. Panic removes rationality ... and with it predictability. A panicked diver isn't just a danger to himself, but to a potential rescuer BECAUSE you cannot predict or completely prepare for what they're going to do. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. You have to react according to the circumstances ... and there's no way of knowing what those will be until it happens. When it does, the more options at your disposal the easier it becomes to deal with the situation in a way that it has a potential for a happy ending.

I leave it up to you to decide how that pertains to the topic of this thread ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fishoutawater]

FWIW, I wasn't trolling. I was curious. Tried to find out why I'd need a longer hose in an open water dive. Heard lots of reasons, but other than people just not wanting to be that near someone else during a controlled ascent, I still haven't seen any advantage for a longer hose in open water.
Thanks for all the responses though. Peace.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

FWIW, I wasn't trolling. I was curious. Tried to find out why I'd need a longer hose in an open water dive. Heard lots of reasons, but other than people just not wanting to be that near someone else during a controlled ascent, I still haven't seen any advantage for a longer hose in open water.
Thanks for all the responses though. Peace.

I'm cool with your question and your decision. It would be the exact same as if I posted and said "I'm using a long hose but wondering about going short hose while doing some ocean drift diving in Cozumel. Anybody have an opinion to share?" Maybe after hearing all the advantages of the short hose setup I would say "Thanks but I'll stick with my long hose." As long as I'm not rude or condescending, what's wrong with asking a question even when I'm 99% certain I won't hear something that changes my decision?

So... Rock on and enjoy your dives.

 

[RJP]

Heard lots of reasons, but other than people just not wanting to be that near someone else during a controlled ascent, I still haven't seen any advantage for a longer hose in open water.

At the risk of sounding like a semantic difference I would suggest that you not limit the potential benefit in open-water recreational diving to just "not wanting to be that near" nor would I limit it to "during a controlled ascent" and consider the practical implications of what you can and can't do if you are "that near someone else."


"not wanting to be that near"

With a long hose you have GREATER FLEXIBILITY to control/modify the distance between the donor and receipient. There are situations like needing to have direct, physical control of a panicked diver where you might want to be locked closely. There are situations were you don't need to be that close, and having a little more space between each other might be a good thing. To me having the OPTION to control and modify the distance is very different - and much more important - than "not wanting to be near"

Also, beyond the amount of distance between the donor and receipient, don't underestimate the benefit of not restricting the ORIENTATION of the two divers. With a short hose, you are constrained in not just HOW FAR away you can be, but also WHERE you must be located relative to me. You can really only be right in front of me, or directly on the one side. With a long hose, you can be directly in front of me, to my left, to my right, a little above, a little below. We can be side-by-side, we can be facing each other. When side-by-side we can be shoulder to shoulder or one a little ahead of the other. You can lead me, I can lead you. If I need to lead you, I can take you by the shoulder, the elbow, the tank valve. You can do the same. We can each look or turn around as necessary without yanking the other reg out of the other's mouth. Either of us can easily access any of our gear if needed. Consider that we may each have a camera or maybe a catch-bag or spear gun or something else we're carrying. Suppose there was an entanglement risk present such as monofilament, kelp, other lines? What if we had to shoot a bag or were towing a dive flag on a drift dive? Would be nice to have a little more room to maneuver if that's the case.


"during a controlled ascent"

It seems that in a class you always ascend immediately and directly to the surface during an air share exercise. In the real world - even in recreational diving - that may not always be possible, advisable, or even desirable. (Of course it's always a consideration in an overhead/deco environment.) You and your OOG buddy may need to swim a fair distance to an upline to get back to the boat. Boat/watercraft at the surface may present a hazard that you don't want to ascend into. Perhaps there's a surface current/chop/surge that would be much harder to swim through than navigating on the bottom or midwater to the exit point. Maybe it's a shallow reef dive and I have plenty of air so we decide to simply swim back to where we entered instead of exiting where you went OOG. Suppose we actually needed to utilize a compass to navigate to the exit point? There are many recreational situations where "ending the dive" doesn't necessarily mean ascending immediately and directly to the surface. Having the ability to effectively and comfortably swim and navigate while sharing gas is much easier with a long hose than a standard octo.

So you can see, while all the benefits of a long hose come directly from it's increased length, the practical implications and benefits of the hose's length extend well beyond - no pun intended - merely "not wanting to be that near."

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Also, beyond the amount of distance between the donor and receipient, don't underestimate the benefit of not restricting the ORIENTATION of the two divers. With a short hose, you are constrained in not just HOW FAR away you can be, but also WHERE you must be located relative to me. You can really only be right in front of me, or directly on the one side. With a long hose, you can be directly in front of me, to my left, to my right, a little above, a little below. We can be side-by-side, we can be facing each other. When side-by-side we can be shoulder to shoulder or one a little ahead of the other. You can lead me, I can lead you. If I need to lead you, I can take you by the shoulder, the elbow, the tank valve. You can do the same. We can each look or turn around as necessary without yanking the other reg out of the other's mouth. Either of us can easily access any of our gear if needed. Consider that we may each have a camera or maybe a catch-bag or spear gun or something else we're carrying. Suppose there was an entanglement risk present such as monofilament, kelp, other lines? What if we had to shoot a bag or were towing a dive flag on a drift dive? Would be nice to have a little more room to maneuver if that's the case.

This should be transposed with post #2

I was in Turk and Caicos doing a deeper wall dive swimming away from the mooring and planned to return back to the boat at a shallower depth. On our way back we realized we were swimming into the current and my tank had roughly 600PSI while my wife had well over a 1000PSI. I just simply showed her my gauge, and did an airshare on her 7' hose while we headed back to the boat. We swam side by side about 3' apart and were not single file and had plenty of room to use efficient kicks. Absolutely no panic, just a good use of team resources to finish the dive safely while hitting all our stops.