Not understanding the long hose thing

[halocline]

You are absolutely correct. Long hoses are for one thing and one thing only, to get two divers out of an overhead environment in an OOA situation safely.

Period.

Using a long hose in an open water situation is dangerous and unnecessary.

Jeff

I would like you to defend this rather absurd claim of the long hose being dangerous in open water with at least one example where it has caused injury. Even a reasonable hypothetical would be interesting. Your comment is striking in how arrogant it is, especially considering considering it's extremely dubious logic.

The recreational long hose (5-6 ft) is in my experience more comfortable, more streamlined, and far easier to share air with than the "conventional" dive gear industry recreational set up. I have used it as a DM in the caribbean with a wide variety of OW divers, shared air with a few of those.

To the post about the octo/inflators accomplishing the same thing; their use is similar IF you put the primary on a long hose, with 2 exceptions that I think are important. One is that you cannot start breathing off the octo/inflator with no hands, while with the bungied alternate you can just dip your chin to get the reg. The second is that venting air is somewhat complicated while sharing air. You can practice it, but it's still different than having two separate devices for breathing and BC vent/inflation. Plus, I find that a short (12") inflator hose is very convenient and streamlined over my left shoulder, really easy and quick to vent. With an octo/inflator, you must use a longer inflator hose, and I personally don't find that nearly as comfortable or efficient. Then you have the much larger inflator mechanism which is constantly on your chest; overall to me there's just no advantage to the octo/inflator. Dive shops sure love to sell them though.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

I don't think it's anything unique about the long hose that requires practice/drills. I think it's that people who dive the long hose are generally people who are THINKING about being ready for emergencies, and thus they practice.

Thumbs up for logic! This comes up all the time in Internet debates. The accepted cliché to quote is:

Never confuse correlation with causation.

Or to give a ridiculous analogy: my brother is the Principal Tuba with the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra. He practices for hours every day. Do we conclude that the Tuba he plays is more difficult to play than the one used by folks who practice a few times a week to play in their "recreational" marching band? Do we conclude that perhaps he lacks skills and needs the practice?

 

[akbpilot]

...... I think it's that people who dive the long hose are generally people who are THINKING about being ready for emergencies, and thus they practice.

Thumbs up for logic! This comes up all the time in Internet debates....

LOL.... Or they read about it on the Internet and want to be one of the "Kool Kids"

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

LOL.... Or they read about it on the Internet and want to be one of the "Kool Kids"

Perhaps I was not clear. I have no idea of hose length comes up all the time, I was speaking of the general argument where a group of people are doing both X and Y and somebody assumes that X must cause Y. In this case, if the long hose people (people doing X) all practice deploying their hose for emergencies and switching to their backup regulator (Y), do we assume that the long hose is more complicated? If so, we are saying that X (long hose) causes Y (practice).

Whereas it may be that some other factor, such as concern for handling emergencies (Z) causes X and Y: Those with a great deal of concern may do their research and decide that the long hose is the safer piece of equipment. That same concern may lead them to practice emergency drills.

I'm not making this argument specifically, just pointing out that observing two factors (X and Y) that seem to be correlated does not automatically lead tho the conclusion that one follows the other.

 

[StreetDoctor]

The amount of cluelessness in this thread amazes me. How have you all survived in day-to-day living to make it this far? :laughing:

 

[ScubaInChicago]

It's a simple equation...X/Z= y bother explaining the obvious to the folks who just don't get it....

 

[MaxBottomtime]

It takes all of three seconds to learn to tilt your head forward and hand off the long hose. It's not a skill that needs practice, although I see divers do it all the time. It's like practicing tying your shoes.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

It takes all of three seconds to learn to tilt your head forward and hand off the long hose. It's not a skill that needs practice, although I see divers do it all the time. It's like practicing tying your shoes.

Perhaps it's not a skill you need to practice, but I believe that I do. When I perform the drill prior to descending on every dive, I ensure that I haven't done something bone-headed like put the backup reg on over the long hose and thus trap it around my neck. I make sure the backup reg is around my neck and not dangling. I unship the entire hose and make sure it isn't fouled in some other bone-headed way.

All of these things have happened to me. Of course, I could be the outlier who ought to take up tiddley-winks. But for me personally, I see the value in doing the drill on every dive at 10'/3M prior to descending.

Now, I am not saying that a short hose would be any better. If I found myself using a standard short primary, short-ish octo, I think I would still benefit from practicing deploying it. Especially since I could be sure that I know where the octo is by feel and that it is not trapped in some way.

So... Sorry to ramble... but as a n00b with a spotty record I would suggest that I feel more comfortable practicing deploying air for a buddy on every dive regardless of configuration.

 

[akbpilot]

The amount of cluelessness in this thread amazes me. How have you all survived in day-to-day living to make it this far? :laughing:

Man, talk about a thread killer...we haven't even got to the point where we spend the next 150 posts arguing about how to attach the boltsnap...or what size boltsnap...or if it should be brass or SS...or....????

 

[elan]

But if you went OOG with her having the long hose you'd have to lead the way and she'd follow you. That isn't ideal. You need to have the long hose and get her to go OOG

... Closing her valve Even when I have to lead the way she can appreciate my 7' hose