No Market For Tech?

[bdshort]

Tech diving is slowly growing here. The husband/wife owners of the LDS are Trimix certified as is a friend of theirs, and I believe they're currently teaching their first intro to tech class to a couple of the more active local divers. I'd like to do this eventually but currently can't afford it.

 

[ucfdiver]

I for one have found him face to face to be an exceedingly unpleasant foul-mouthed oaf.

Interesting.

Webster defines oaf as:
1: a stupid person

I really wonder if you listened to him, or if you came in with a predetermined opinion based on his foul language and firm views. If he was as stupid as you say, no one would talk about him, no one would care. However, he lead one of the most successful exploration teams that we know of, and did so with an amazing safety record, so people know that he has the experience to back up what he's saying. I try to ignore the profanity and learn from the knowledge.

BTW, here's a few scuba board member's comments after emailing him-

in contact with GI once and he was most helpful and willing to share his thoughts and knowledge


:notworthy

Many people, likely pretty much everyone who has actually approached George, has found him to be like you describe. He's that way in person too.

Tom

I received my response this morning to the E-mail I sent to GI3, and it was %100 totally not what I expected, he was very helpful, answered my questions and was not arrogant in the least. I asked a few questions about DIR that always start flame wars on this and other boards and I was shocked when he simply told me the way he does it and why in ways that made perfect sense to me. I believe the man would be willing to discuss just about anything as far as eqiupment and configs go if approached in a non confrontational way, however like the rest of us I'm sure, he seems very passionate about his beliefs and if outright challanged he will defend them to the death. I am not a DIR convert yet and may never be, but I do not see GI3 as an enemy, I believe he, as well as others, is one we can all learn something from, this is my opinion of course.

I can look at what Hal Watt's has done for the diving industry and appreciate that just as easy as I can appreciate what George Irvine has done, even being that they're darn close to polar opposites......but I'm interested in finding the best diving style for myself, learning where the sport has come from, and where it's progressing to, not playing silly politics.

 

[peterbj7]

Webster defines oaf as:
1: a stupid person

I don't know where Webster gets its definition from, as it doesn't correspond with what I have always understood the word to mean. I don't have an Oxford dictionary with me or I would look it up there.

Anyway, if I had meant "stupid" that is the word I would have used. I meant uncultured, coarse, belligerent ..... someone I have no desire to be anywhere near. Please don't manipulate and then deliberately mis-interpret the words I used.

If you mean by "predetermined opinion" that I went to the meeting already convinced I wouldn't want to hear him then that is the exact opposite of my position. I had never seen or heard him before but knew he had strong views and wasn't afraid of expressing them, and I wanted to hear those views. I expected to learn from them.

However, when he cut into another speaker in mid sentence that didn't bode well, and when what came out of his mouth could in no way be construed as a constructive contribution to the debate, but was merely foul-mouthed personal invective directed against the speaker he had interrupted, I switched off. As I said before, in any normal debating environment he would not have been allowed to continue but would have been silenced, and then if (when) he continued, ejected.

Perhaps I would have ignored the "profanity" and learned from the knowledge, but on that occasion (the only occasion I have ever heard him) there WAS no knowledge, just invective. (I don't recall any profanity)

They say that first impressions count most. This one certainly did. I have little doubt that George Irvine has accomplished a lot in his diving career, and I haven't said anything to detract from his achievement. I merely described his behaviour on the only occasion I have ever been near him, and said that that behaviour did not encourage me to listen to him on any future occasion. He is his own worst ambassador.

 

[ucfdiver]

Please don't manipulate and then deliberately mis-interpret the words I used.

Accusing me of that is a stretch. I took your words for exactly how they were defined in the dictionary. Thanks for clearing up what you meant.

 

[peterbj7]

Well, I don't possess a copy of any Webster's dictionary, so I looked up "oaf" in the dictionary provided by Wikipedia. It gives a modern definition of "oaf" as "a person, especially a large male, who is clumsy or a simpleton; an idiot". I don't see anything approaching "stupid" in there, at any rate not in its modern meaning.

Why don't you look up another word? - "disingenuous".

 

[Blackwood]

Why don't you look up another word? - "disingenuous".

The implication that he's being disingenuous is absolutely unwarranted.

Both of the free dictionaries that I know of (one which references Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006., and the other which is run by Merriam-Webster) include "stupid" in the first listing for oaf.

1.	a clumsy, [B]stupid [/B]person; lout. 

1  : a [B]stupid [/B]person : boob

 

[ucfdiver]

Well, I don't possess a copy of any Webster's dictionary, so I looked up "oaf" in the dictionary provided by Wikipedia. It gives a modern definition of "oaf" as "a person, especially a large male, who is clumsy or a simpleton; an idiot". I don't see anything approaching "stupid" in there, at any rate not in its modern meaning.

Why don't you look up another word? - "disingenuous".

I don't see how it's being "disingenuous" . You're splitting hairs here. You basically replaced the word stupid with idiot.

Idiot (as defined by the dictionary you quoted)-

1. (pejorative) A common term for a person of low general intelligence. usage note This may be used pejoratively, as an insult. It is a weak insult, however, and between close friends, family members, or lovers, is often completely nonaggressive.
2. (obsolete) A medical or psychological term meaning a person who lacks the capacity to develop beyond the mental age of a normal four-year-old.

Stupid-

1 a: slow of mind : obtuse
b: given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner
c: lacking intelligence or reason : brutish
2: dulled in feeling or sensation : torpid <still stupid from the sedative>
3: marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting : senseless <a stupid decision>
4 a: lacking interest or point <a stupid event>

Neither of these describe George Irvine, and my original post is still valid.

 

[deepstops]

But the Brit is certainly showing his lack of command of the English language (sorry Peter, you had it coming).

 

[nereas]

Tech diving is slowly growing here. The husband/wife owners of the LDS are Trimix certified as is a friend of theirs, and I believe they're currently teaching their first intro to tech class to a couple of the more active local divers. I'd like to do this eventually but currently can't afford it.

TDI and NAUI seem to be offering tech (trimix & deco) training world wide. IANTD used to be easy to find, as well, and is still alive and well in some locations. These instructors tend to be associated with dive stores.

GUE teaches their version of trimix & deco as well, where you can find them. Those instructors tend to be independent. As long as the various dive stores honor their respective C-cards, there should be no problem.

Wherever there are deep wrecks or submerged caves, there is going to be tech training in some form or another.

 

[bburns24]

I'm going to move my this over to wreck diving, but before I do I wanted to post this article.

I'm looking forward to looking at these sunked ships.

Starting this thread on the first of Aug. in response to a comment at my IA training to now two weeks later working to find these ships, my comment is it's not hard to find a market. You just need a place to dive.