Technical Diving Instructor Survey

[FF / EMT]

If run under the long hose, you’d have to pass the light under it every time you clip off the light, which happens often at any given dive, if you don’t, then you’d be really trapping the long hose.

Besides, the emergency is out of air, not out of full length hose, get the reg donated and the OOA diver calmed and reassured they have something to breath, only then the full length hose can be deployed for convenience/logistics.

Fair points, however if you reach your arm behind your long hose you can pull your light through and stow in in the working position (down) or the stow position (up).
Additionally if you keep it tucked behind when using it, it keeps it clean and close and tight

 

[Scuba-licia]

There are at least three distinct fairly popular sidemount "standards". All can be used in any environment and have there pros and cons. Sounds to me you found two shops that simply do it differently.

Can you expand please?

 

[Wibble]

Thanks for your reply.

As an example of what I'm trying to get at: I have been at 2 different TDI shops that have very different ways of teaching basic sidemount skills and require different gear configs. One is cave focused, the other open water... I understand some of the differences due to environmental considerations (sidemount cave vs sidemount open water on a dive with the same lift capacity requirements shouldn't require a completely different harness and wing. Yes, cave will need more lights while open water doesnt) but published standards don't go into the level of detail I'm looking for. I'm being told to completely change my sidemount rig and the way I put a reg on a tank to meet a specific shops standards, as an example.

One shop didnt teach me failures for the full system, things like tank band failure... again its not listed in standards. I'm here for learning new methods of doing things but this level of inconsistency of basics is incredibly frustrating and it seems as though the bigger picture isnt being considered or at the very least, explained. Thats what I'm trying to uncover. Its unrealistic to need completely different gear set ups for different dives... Some things do carry over and some things do need to be different, especially the more advanced the dives.

Thanks for the survey note! Ill change that.

The big thing about Technical training is it's the basic level. Just because you've passed a course means absolutely nothing: you've passed your driving test last week and want to be a professional racing driver.

The courses teach you the basics. Sure, some courses teach advanced basics, but it's very much up to the diver to be able to sort out issues and use their experience to triage the problems when diving in the real world. Same with planning; it takes a while to work out what sort of things need to be included in a plan using your own experiences, working out which things are most important and which are side issues.

For example, sidemount is a basic skill. Using a sidemount configuration when going through a restriction in a cave/wreck relies upon your basic skills plus all your experience. Some of those sidemount skills will be exceedingly useful when on CCR or even backmount OC. Also there's pre-requisites to learning skills such as your core skills (finning, trim, buoyancy) needs to be properly sorted.

I've always thought of dive training as being like learning basic building blocks from which you can develop the ongoing skills with experience.


Regarding sidemount kit, you may well need several different configurations depending on the diving you're doing. Most of the popular sidemount harnesses such as the XDeep Stealth will do most things, but sometimes it may need to be customised or changed as in a chestmount rebreather or no-mount configuration for sump diving. General purpose stuff only goes so far before you need to change to a specialist piece of kit.

 

[Scuba-licia]

The big thing about Technical training is it's the basic level. Just because you've passed a course means absolutely nothing: you've passed your driving test last week and want to be a professional racing driver.

The courses teach you the basics. Sure, some courses teach advanced basics, but it's very much up to the diver to be able to sort out issues and use their experience to triage the problems when diving in the real world. Same with planning; it takes a while to work out what sort of things need to be included in a plan using your own experiences, working out which things are most important and which are side issues.

For example, sidemount is a basic skill. Using a sidemount configuration when going through a restriction in a cave/wreck relies upon your basic skills plus all your experience. Some of those sidemount skills will be exceedingly useful when on CCR or even backmount OC. Also there's pre-requisites to learning skills such as your core skills (finning, trim, buoyancy) needs to be properly sorted.

I've always thought of dive training as being like learning basic building blocks from which you can develop the ongoing skills with experience.


Regarding sidemount kit, you may well need several different configurations depending on the diving you're doing. Most of the popular sidemount harnesses such as the XDeep Stealth will do most things, but sometimes it may need to be customised or changed as in a chestmount rebreather or no-mount configuration for sump diving. General purpose stuff only goes so far before you need to change to a specialist piece of kit.

Totally agree. Thats the mental model I'm attempting to build. Sure it comes with experience, but as you mentioned, there are considerations a diver must think about when determining the gear to take, skills they need to use (assuming now theyve gone through some training for the dive they want to take), environments. Im simply trying to get a baseline out of more experienced divers heads.

 

[Edward3c]

Here in the UK, if your teaching commercially, i.e. PADI GUE etc and there is an incident. The first thing the HSE will ask for is the written risk assessment (RA), which should cover all equipment and skills.

Do a RA for a few lessons and you'll soon see what you need.

 

[J-Vo]

Can you expand please?

Have a look at my second post above.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Hi All,

As a somewhat new tech diver (first certified April 2024) , a recreational scuba instructor for 20 years, and user experience designer by day, I am struggling to find a mental model across different types of technical diving (e.g: cavern and open water extended range) to get a better sense of what what what must absolutely must differ based on certain conditions as opposed to what can be carried through to all types of tech diving. As an example: All tech diving requires a primary mask and backup light, but cavern diving requires and additional backup light.

I put together a survey to kick off this project, first focused on gear with the hopes of expanding to other considerations and would love the input of technical dive instructors and course directors.

The UX of Scuba

forms.gle

Thanks in advance for your help on this!
Alicia

I'm retired from teaching. Rec and tech through Adv Wreck. But I still filled out your survey.
I still have a form for my classes stating the required equipment if you'd like to see it.

 

[Nick_Radov]

Thanks but not everyone publishes standards and definitely not to the level I'm looking to get at. I'm not looking for minimum. I'm looking for realistic. See my reply below for more context.

If they don't publish standards, or the minimum standards are unrealistic, then you can take that as a clear signal that they're not qualified to teach.

 

[old frogman]

If they don't publish standards, or the minimum standards are unrealistic, then you can take that as a clear signal that they're not qualified to teach.

Hi SCUBA-licia,

From what you are saying I assume that you are looking at a model for deciding on what equipment and techniques to adopt regarding dive location, conditions and activity. You may also want to predict and resolve significant problems that may emerge during the dive. May I suggest the risk management model. There are two books recently published which explain the risk management model and its implementation.
"Risk Management for Diving Operations" and "SCUBA Diving Operational Risk Management".

Standards, policies, procedures, rules and legislation are fine as a starting point, and they will facilitate rapid deployment into a dive activity. However, they are based on a known and defined situation. If you venture outside the known and defined situation, you need a model that enables you to adapt human and physical resources to the unknown and the uncertain. Risk management facilitates this process.

 

[rjack321]

Can you expand please?

What instructors are you working with? You're going to have to name names.

As you discovered it's the wild west out there. And you will continue to get inconsistent answers across the range of reasonable to absolute cr*p instructors who can't dive their way out of a paper bag. This is a "feature" of most technical agencies who fail to maintain rigorous standards and procedures. GUE is an exception, but they won't teach you sidemount without cave2 (for a good reason).