No Ditch-able weights with BP/W

[Storker]

That should have had a question mark after the sentence, it's not there and I'm still looking for it.

Let me know when you find it, because it would completely change the meaning of the sentence.

 

[Bob DBF]

Let me know when you find it, because it would completely change the meaning of the sentence.

I know where it is, but the mods would have to do it now, they are too busy with important things for me to bother them to correct my f'up. Its a good reason for me to proof better next time.


Bob
?

 

[Ayisha]

I think you're confused or we've got crossed wires .... You had said that when ditching some weight "they certainly can have an uncontrolled ascent by the time they get shallower." and I suggested playing with Rob's SS tool, and that shows it's not uncontrolled and kicking down would be a way to mitigate that.

No, not confused. I'm very familiar with a balanced rig and have been held down at 10 or 15 feet in a downcurrent even in a *lifejacket* in a Belize cave river. Positive buoyancy or even kicking up will do little to nothing in a downcurrent.

If you had quoted my full sentence, you would see that I'm referring to a suddenly under-weighted diver who has ditched weight at depth. My quote is in reference to the quote I replied to, which was essentially that the diver could hang out where they're neutral. My quote is pretty self-explanatory. Unless you can breathe water, you will have to eventually ascend. Removing a couple of pounds will not be too hard to kick down, but it will also have little to no effect in a downcurrent. Good luck moving upward against a downcurrent by removing weights alone. Why remove weights if you don't have to and create another issue to deal with? It's much more effective to move in any other direction away from the wall, along the wall, or climbing the wall if you have to.

This is not correct for the typical recreational diver. If you dive a balanced rig, you're not carrying extra weight. You are wearing the correct amount of weight from the beginning to the end of a dive. Ditchable weight is not necessarily extra weight. A recreational diver may not have the ditchable weight that a tech diver diving an unbalanced rig may have, such as a can light, heavy camera or DPV, for example, that can easily be ditched, returning to a balanced rig.

If a diver removes some weight and becomes under-weighted, at some point they will need to leave that sweet safety of neutral buoyancy and they certainly can have an uncontrolled ascent by the time they get shallower.

Removing weight at depth in a downcurrent is less effective than other strategies and can potentially cause more complications.

Bold added.

 

[Ayisha]

Well, I'm not taking a deep breath and holding it! I'm just saying that is all it takes to move me up in the water column. If your buoyancy is neutral, this should happen. If I let the air out of my lungs, I start to move down in the water column. I mean, this is just basic buoyancy control, is it not?

Yes, it is just basic buoyancy control, and you've got a good handle on everything you've posted in this thread.

I think that some of the things that you're writing about have been questioned because they were originally DIR concepts (like a balanced rig), but they're not in the DIR forum, and they are slowly becoming more mainstream. In DIR diving, we inhale to begin our ascent as you stated, and we don't kick our way up. Our feet are completely still. To someone who has been trained to begin their ascent by kicking, this is a foreign concept.

You seem to be a thinking diver and have a lot of concepts figured out, so keep up the good work.

 

[Daebado]

Yes, it is just basic buoyancy control, and you've got a good handle on everything you've posted in this thread.

I think that some of the things that you're writing about have been questioned because they were originally DIR concepts (like a balanced rig), but they're not in the DIR forum, and they are slowly becoming more mainstream. In DIR diving, we inhale to begin our ascent as you stated, and we don't kick our way up. Our feet are completely still. To someone who has been trained to begin their ascent by kicking, this is a foreign concept.

You seem to be a thinking diver and have a lot of concepts figured out, so keep up the good work.

Thanks Ayisha, I appreciate the comments. I'm still pretty new to diving in the grand scheme (6 yrs and hope to hit 100 dives this year - hey, it's hard to rack up numbers living in the Midwest!) but I go as often as I can and try to learn as much as I can from each dive as well as from talking to other divers and reading through forums like this one. I've learned from my mistakes as well as the mistakes of more experienced divers.
I do value the insights here, otherwise I wouldn't keep coming back!

(well, I might just because y'all are a fun group and I enjoy reading all the back-n-forth! )

 

[Storker]

In DIR diving, we inhale to begin our ascent as you stated, and we don't kick our way up.

I have to be instinctively DIR, then, long before I'd even heard about the concept. Because I had hardly logged a dozen dives before I rather consistently used that trick. And even fewer before I consistently used an exhalation to start a descent...

 

[2airishuman]

I’m not an official and I'm not giving you a story.
The harness is a continuous webbing that is almost infinitely adjustable. How is it difficult to have it as loose as you would like? If it's not easy to get in or out, loosen it up. Half an inch to an inch (1.25 - 2.5 cm) loose is enough to have a comfortable fit. Want it looser? No problem. It has a crotch strap that is extremely adjustable and the wing's not going anywhere.

Yep. I think they're great. It's all I dive.

Some people have problems getting out of them. Some people have problems getting back in, in the water. I don't know why. Maybe shoulder mobility problems. Maybe body shape. Loosening the straps doesn't always help with this and I've talked to instructors who have run into it with more than one student.

 

[Ayisha]

...I had hardly logged a dozen dives before I rather consistently used that trick...

So you agree that inhaling to begin an ascent was not what you were taught in a non-DIR course?

As you can see in this thread and others, anytime someone mentions inhaling to begin an ascent, they are cautioned that it is dangerous .

I have to be instinctively DIR, then, long before I'd even heard about the concept...

You must be. Were you involved in any forums, like this one? I was imitating many DIR concepts for 10 years before I ever went DIR by reading, and observing and listening to DIR people that I met.

...And even fewer before I consistently used an exhalation to start a descent...

Now that should have been taught in your open water course.