Nitrox VIP Sticker not good enough?

[chrpai]

Chris,

PADI first off started saying that Nitrox was voodoo gas and snake oil, then they smelled the money and finally decided to get into the game. Once they did they dreamed up a marketing scheme that requires a 6" silly banner with green and yellow, but also notice that it's got the nice old PADI logo on it.. That's why they invented this standard, the scuba and Nitrox community was doing quite well until PADI dreamed up marketing schemes. BTW, I love that now that they are selling Trimix [ the last agency into the game] they dreamed up their own Trimix sticker.. Boy whoever made that sticker up must not really dive because the largest area is left for the persons name [ unimportant] and whereas the smallest area is designated for the most important thing MOD.. God bless them..

You can dismiss the concept all you want, but the point is that you are suggesting that agencies train sheep. You see a yellow and green banner you don't dive it. If you don't then go ahead and dive. That ignores the penultimate issue which is content, not advertising stickers.. Next time you suggest that all agencies are the same please remind me of this thread, because that is a huge difference..

Later

Funny, my stickers don't have a PADI logo on them. I'm really not intersted in your testimonial of how your petty agency is better.

 

[chrpai]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day ;-)

Funny how Genesis hocks his stickers on his website. So its ok for him to sell stickers but no one else. And of course GUE sells their stickers on extreme-exposure.com at $24 a roll and $8 for a label.

 

[chrpai]

Chris,

PADI first off started saying that Nitrox was voodoo gas and snake oil, then they smelled the money and finally decided to get into the game.

BTW- Your calling the kettle black on this one. PADI had a EAN class years before your agency dreamed up its pathetic RecTriox/Nitrox class.

And where is your OW course?

 

[Genesis]

My stickers are FREE if you come and get them. I keep a bunch in my truck. Further, they have nothing to do with tanks - at all. The ones that I have that DO have something to do with tanks are not for sale.

Every LDS that has tried to force me to have one of those nitrox stickers also wanted to charge me $10 for it, and of course to do a VIS right you have to remove the sticker that's there.

So now the $10 vis becomes a $20 vis for a "nitrox" tank, or they do "half a viz" (leaving the existing sticker there) which is real nice too.

Oh, then you get the wonderful shops that won't put air in a Nitrox-banded tank, and look at you funny when you tell them "ok, then fill it with EANx21"

Never mind that if it was O2 clean to start with you have to wonder if the tech doing the inspection is paying attention to not contaminating the valve in the process.

Yet another reason to me to have my own compressor.

It ain't about DIR, or WKPP, or anything else. Its about conveying useful information to people and not misleading them. A big "Nitrox sticker" is misleading in that it tells you NOTHING, even as an open water non-nitrox diver, about what's in the tank.

It serves exactly one legitimate purpose, and that is for tanks in a rental fleet.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Chris,

PADI first off started saying that Nitrox was voodoo gas and snake oil, then they smelled the money and finally decided to get into the game. Once they did they dreamed up a marketing scheme that requires a 6" silly banner with green and yellow, but also notice that it's got the nice old PADI logo on it.. That's why they invented this standard, the scuba and Nitrox community was doing quite well until PADI dreamed up marketing schemes. BTW, I love that now that they are selling Trimix [ the last agency into the game] they dreamed up their own Trimix sticker.. Boy whoever made that sticker up must not really dive because the largest area is left for the persons name [ unimportant] and whereas the smallest area is designated for the most important thing MOD.. God bless them..

I don't know that PADI invented the big nitrox sticker did they. IANTD (them IAND I think) was one of, if not the first to teach nitrox in recreational diving. Both IANTD and NOAA (if I'm not mistaken) use similar marking conventions and it goes back before PADI was doing nitrox.

You can dismiss the concept all you want, but the point is that you are suggesting that agencies train sheep. You see a yellow and green banner you don't dive it. If you don't then go ahead and dive. That ignores the penultimate issue which is content, not advertising stickers.. Next time you suggest that all agencies are the same please remind me of this thread, because that is a huge difference.

Later

Yes content is the important thing. However, when the majority of tanks have "air" in them and most people and even shops don't even own an analyzer then just avoiding the big sticker is easy.

 

[Genesis]

Yes content is the important thing. However, when the majority of tanks have "air" in them and most people and even shops don't even own an analyzer then just avoiding the big sticker is easy.

Again, unless the "air only" shop dumps EVERY tank that comes back, 100% of the time, before refilling them there is no way they can say that the contents of that tank that they just filled is indeed "air". I've NEVER seen a shop do that for air tanks - not even ones that sell Nitrox as well.

I want to know what's in the tank, and $100 for an O2 analyzer (which is what it costs to build one) is not much. Indeed, its about as much as a fill line costs.

 

[MikeFerrara]

It ain't about DIR, or WKPP, or anything else. Its about conveying useful information to people and not misleading them. A big "Nitrox sticker" is misleading in that it tells you NOTHING, even as an open water non-nitrox diver, about what's in the tank.

Again think of the number of shops and divers that only use air and don't even own an analyzer. A few years ago that was overwelmingly the case. The sticker made sense then. The small minority who used anything other than air were simply required to label them in a really obvious way.

It serves exactly one legitimate purpose, and that is for tanks in a rental fleet.

or sitting near tanks from a rental fleet on a boat with 12 or more divers who never hearn nor care about terms like FO2 or MOD and have no idea what the 3 inch tall letters on the side of your tank mean.

 

[chrpai]

Again, unless the "air only" shop dumps EVERY tank that comes back, 100% of the time, before refilling them there is no way they can say that the contents of that tank that they just filled is indeed "air". I've NEVER seen a shop do that for air tanks - not even ones that sell Nitrox as well.

I want to know what's in the tank, and $100 for an O2 analyzer (which is what it costs to build one) is not much. Indeed, its about as much as a fill line costs.

So your suggesting every OW student learn how to use an O2 analyzer and buy one? How is that any more fair on them then Nitrox divers spending a couple of bucks to put a sticker on their tank?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Again, unless the "air only" shop dumps EVERY tank that comes back, 100% of the time, before refilling them there is no way they can say that the contents of that tank that they just filled is indeed "air". I've NEVER seen a shop do that for air tanks - not even ones that sell Nitrox as well.

I want to know what's in the tank, and $100 for an O2 analyzer (which is what it costs to build one) is not much. Indeed, its about as much as a fill line costs.

Right...and out of the 1% of the population, how many are going to build an analyzer. You're kidding right? We are better off using the sticker. LOL

You're right. Many shops don't analyze "air" tanks. Now days all tanks should probably be analyzed especially with people willing to put nitrox in tanks that aren't marked for them.

You just fixed it so no one needs to buy the dumb sticker but instead needs an analyzer. Way to byte your nose off to spite your face. LOL

 

[MHK]

So your suggesting every OW student learn how to use an O2 analyzer and buy one? How is that any more fair on them then Nitrox divers spending a couple of bucks to put a sticker on their tank?

Hey Painter,

If you are so concerned why not dream up a seperate sticker that says air only ;-).. You could have red & blue for air, green and yellow for nitrox and then gray and black [ I think that's the color they use] for trimix.. Look at it this way, now they can sell 3 stickers instead of one ;-)

BTW, I have no clue what Genesis uses and I don't care. I use duct tape and it works quite well..

Your consistency to never miss an opportunity to see the big picture is astounding..

Later