Nitrox VIP Sticker not good enough?
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chrpai
Contributor
DeepScuba:
Perhaps whats really wrong with this thread is a lack of communications caused by people using different terminology:
To me these pictures show a "Nitrox Label" ( aka "Nitrox Bands" by AzAtty )
http://www.nitroxdiver.com/images/fig1-4.JPG
http://www.iantd.com/products/d-3100.jpg
To me this pictures show a "Contents Label"
http://www.nitroxdiver.com/images/NOAATA~1.JPG
http://www.iantd.com/products/d-6205.jpg
The nitrox label is huge and can be seen from across the room. The contents label is much smaller, only has enough room to fill in FO2, MOD, PSI, Date and Signature. I'd say the contents labels we use are 1/2 the size of my drivers license. You rip it off and put a new one on with each fill.
I agree.chrpai:
I don't necessarily like the big nitrox stickers--I like my tanks clean--but that's what it takes to get a fill around here, so I do it. For my uses, a content label and MOD marking are truly sufficient because I know what those conventions mean. That's the view accepted by many folks, including those who will remain nameless, and I suppose if you can always obey Rule 1, then there's no need to worry about a newbie tokin' on your gas. But, you modify things as necessary to ensure safety, so I think the banners can be necessary in ordinary cattle diving.
Of course, the issue we haven't discussed in how in the world the untrained diver gets his mitts on one's gear without the owner knowing about it.
chrpai
Contributor
AzAtty:
The only argument I've ever seen against tank labels is that they can cover up corrosion. But the same argument could be made about a VIP sticker. Personally I think its more important to brightly label the tape against the stupid then worry about corrosion.
As for the diver getting a nitrox tank by accident..... **** happens. Maybe he was buddied up with the diver and was told to grab to tanks off the back of the truck. Maybe all 4 tanks looked the same except for the little contents label and the newb diver had allready hooked his BCD up to the tank obsecuring it.
Who knows, who cares... it can happen.
A nitrox label does not mean that a non-nitrox diver is unqualified to breathe from the tank! PADI, to the extent they're saying this, is lying.
A CONTENTS label that indicates that either (1) the Oxygen content is not 21% (+/- 1) OR there is a gas in there other than Nitrogen and Oxygen, however, DOES.
There is NOTHING wrong with an air-only certified diver using a Nitrox tank if it has EANx21 in it.
Nothing whatsoever.
Indeed, it is probably preferrable, especially if that tank is also O2-service-rated, as the air in there will have effectively ZERO hydrocarbon contamination (as opposed to "some".)
Given my druthers, as an AIR diver, I want the Nitrox-banded, O2-service-rated tank with EANx21 in it.
If PADI is including something then ok, I stand corrected on that account, but then I accuse them of false and misleading statements, since the "band" is simply not relavent. The only relavent issue is that of a CONTENTS TAG, which should be on ALL cylinders.
Unless someone has analyzed the gas in a given cylinder they do not KNOW what is in there. They may BELIEVE it is simply air, but what if the "air tank" was rented to someone who stuck some O2 in there before returning it, and then that tank was topped without draining it first, or the shop sells both Nitrox and Air, and fills off the wrong whip from the bank? Can't happen? It sure as hell can!
Teaching people to dive without teaching them that ALL cylinders must have a contents label or they are not usable is where the problem lies.
A CONTENTS label that indicates that either (1) the Oxygen content is not 21% (+/- 1) OR there is a gas in there other than Nitrogen and Oxygen, however, DOES.
There is NOTHING wrong with an air-only certified diver using a Nitrox tank if it has EANx21 in it.
Nothing whatsoever.
Indeed, it is probably preferrable, especially if that tank is also O2-service-rated, as the air in there will have effectively ZERO hydrocarbon contamination (as opposed to "some".)
Given my druthers, as an AIR diver, I want the Nitrox-banded, O2-service-rated tank with EANx21 in it.
If PADI is including something then ok, I stand corrected on that account, but then I accuse them of false and misleading statements, since the "band" is simply not relavent. The only relavent issue is that of a CONTENTS TAG, which should be on ALL cylinders.
Unless someone has analyzed the gas in a given cylinder they do not KNOW what is in there. They may BELIEVE it is simply air, but what if the "air tank" was rented to someone who stuck some O2 in there before returning it, and then that tank was topped without draining it first, or the shop sells both Nitrox and Air, and fills off the wrong whip from the bank? Can't happen? It sure as hell can!
Teaching people to dive without teaching them that ALL cylinders must have a contents label or they are not usable is where the problem lies.
chrpai
Contributor
Genesis:
Your missing the point. A non certified diver doesn't know what FO2 or MOD is. The contents label is completly meaningless to them. All they know is that big green and yellow sticker means DO NOT TOUCH.
That sticker doesn't come off easily. What happens if your contents label accidentally gets pulled off? They will think its a regular old air tank.
Earth to chrpai, come in bud..........
You're gone.....you're WAY out there in the Delta quadrant of the "what if" System.
But I understand. My 2" X 5" wide, butt-ugly piece of duct-tape always falls off.
I can't afford contents stickers, I buy a $1.00 roll of tape.
It'll only last 1 season though.
You're gone.....you're WAY out there in the Delta quadrant of the "what if" System.
But I understand. My 2" X 5" wide, butt-ugly piece of duct-tape always falls off.
I can't afford contents stickers, I buy a $1.00 roll of tape.
It'll only last 1 season though.
MHK
Guest
chrpai:
Chris,
Once again you are applying the wrong solution to the problem and not thinking the problem all the way through to it's logical conclusion. As much as it pains me to say it, Genesis has it right on this one.
The answer to the problem isn't to have everyone running around putting silly green and yellow advertising banners on their tanks. The solution is to train divers from their basic open water class the advantages of Nitrox and to teach them that many divers have decided to take advantage of the benefits of Nitrox and as a result if they dive any tank other then there own they need to inspect it for a content label.. Hell, they can even do this as they pimp a con ed Nitrox class ;-)..
But seriously, your solution presumes that guys like me will ever agree to put one of those ridiculous green and yellow banners on my tank(s), which I will NEVER do. Therefore as a result, your way of logic precludes divers from understanding how or what a content label does. It's right there by the tank valve and if a diver happens to grab my tank and ignores a sticker as he's putting his first stage on then he probably shouldn't be diving anyway..
Later
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