Nitrox Class Without Tables or Math...OK?

[The Chairman]

I showed you that not all computers will calculate best mix and asked if your class/certification rectricted the computers that students can use.

You're right the Edge can't do it! But really, which computer can't do this? Model number please.

No one said anything about evil and I think you are the one with the elitist attitude.

Dude, you're not reading the same thread then. I have been accused of many things in here and some of it by YOU.

I am certainly not Godlike though I am God loving. Still, as a matter of fact, I do teach students how to not get narced. Why don't you?

Again... you got me beat. Maybe you can teach people how to drink and not get drunk either. I teach avoidance.

 

[MikeFerrara]

My two year old Oceanic does.



Actually, mine displays MOD AS I scroll through FO2 (using 1.4 ATA). When I use dive planning mode, it blinks when I pass MOD (1.5) and goes blank when I pass 1.6 ATA

Looks like a newer computer is on your wish list.




My son and I just passed Nitrox (NAUI) class last week. No dives needed.

What certifying agency to you instruct for? (This is an honest question)...

I've taught both the IANTD and the PADI notroc courses. IANTD requires dives and PADI did when I was teaching their courses. All IANTD courses require that all basic dive skills be evaluated on every dive of every class. Check out the form used on their web sit under standards and procedures.

It was an abstract answer designed for the particular question it answered... not a litteral blanket answer... Please... it looks like you are attempting to grasp anything that MIGHT help you



Ah, this is the one.... !!!
If the diver knows their computer, and it starts to beep, they know they have made a mistake.... AND, since they understand their computer, they understand that it is NOT a fatal, or potentially fatal mistake.... AND, they understand how to correct it.

Why, because they took the time to take a Nitrox course, which taught them how to use and understand their dive computer.

You made Netdocs point VERY well!




McApples and McOranges

Yep they know they MADE a mistake. Why not teach diver how NOt to make them?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike, honestly... I wouldn't want one like yours... yours seems to be a danger when attempting to use it.

ok but I've owned three that worked exactly the same sold under the name of 2 different manufacturers. I think I'd like to take Pete's class while using it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I would never dive with such a flawed instrument. I would consider it dangerous to use on ANY dive, let alone Nitrox.

Really. the manufacturer thinks it's ok and lot of them were sold. As I said I want to take it through Pete's class. I've done lots of dives with that computer and it hasen't got me hurt yet, though, I'll admit that it might be more dangerous for some than it is fo others. Personally, I'm not afraid of it. My question is, can an SDI instructor teach a nitroc class with it?

 

[The Chairman]

So Mikey... WHICH COMPUTER IS IT???

The possibility exists that simply you just don't know HOW to do it.

 

[jagfish]

I've taught both the IANTD and the PADI notroc courses. IANTD requires dives and PADI did when I was teaching their courses. All IANTD courses require that all basic dive skills be evaluated on every dive of every class. Check out the form used on their web sit under standards and procedures.

HI Mike,
I don't think your statement about IANTD is accurate. The two dives are not required. See section D Program Content, under EANx Diver on Page 28
http://www.iantd.com/standards/IANTD_Standards_2003[1].pdf
It says the two dives are recommended.

Also, on the same page under Section G, Qualification Requirements, it states that after attending the lecture and passing the test, the certification will be issued.

 

[MikeFerrara]

this is not necessary for diving Nitrox safely (my criteria). however, it does
come in handy for planning dives if you have other than with "banked" nitrox (usually 32% or 34%) available.

a computer would be pretty unwieldy to do this (it can be done: basically dial
in increasing mixes and see which one exceeds 1.4 PPO2, then pick the next lowest).

the EAD table is much easier to use, but it's not precise (it will go from, for example, 1.34 PPO2 to 1.45 PPO2, since it goes in increments of 10 feet) so ... not exactly the most accurate... but hey ... close enough ...

the easiest way is just to plug in the numbers: 1.4 / [(depth/33) + 1]

again, this is a function that neither tables nor the computer do as well as the
simple math inovolved.

but is it necessary to know this in order to dive nitrox safely? no.

Why should safety be the only consideration? What about convenience and versatility? Is whether ot not trhe student survives the only measure of the quality and usefulness of the class?

Pete's students will most likely live through the experience. However, if they skip the class, buy a fill whip, mix their own gas and go diving, they will still most likely survive. Is it a good class?

 

[Rick Inman]

HI Mike,
I don't think your statement about IANTD is accurate. The two dives are not required. See section D Program Content, under EANx Diver on Page 28
http://www.iantd.com/standards/IANTD_Standards_2003[1].pdf
It says the two dives are recommended.

Also, on the same page under Section G, Qualification Requirements, it states that after attending the lecture and passing the test, the certification will be issued.

Interesting the the EANx Resort Diver class requires one dive:

D. Program Content
1. Lecture covering all material included in text.
2. All divers must perform at least one dive on an EANx mixture of between 24 and 40% oxygen.

 

[Kim]

Interesting the the EANx Resort Diver class requires one dive:

That'll just be so that they know where to find everything at the resort!

 

[MikeFerrara]

Why would I do that in a NitrOx class? These are OPEN WATER divers. SAC, DAC and such are better suited to be discussed in an Advanced OW class and then expounded upon in a Master Diver class. Next, you'll want me covering deco procedures and how to run the hyperbaric chamber to boot! Time does not permit for EVERY diving topic to be discussed in this class.

It's obvious your NEEDS would not be met in this class. Why you feel that everyone else should be taught to YOUR NEEDS simply escapes me. There are many different reasons for diving including ego, fun, knowledge and adventure. To look down upon a diver merely because they have a different focus and agenda in their diving than you is merely egocentric. Who died and left you in charge of what is "OK" and what is not? There will always be a certain rigidity when discussing the essential curricula for any discipline. There is almost always more than one way to skin this cat.

He's not in charge of anything. You are free to do whatever is legal as you morally see fit. He simply doesn't agree with you. Why do you have so much trouble with that?