Nitrox Class Without Tables or Math...OK?

[Soggy]

Let's look at this practically..

Are there *any* good reasons to dumb down the nitrox curriculum? Is it actually too hard?

In my opinion, no. There are no good reasons...It's already incredibly easy and the 2 or 3 simple formulas that need to be learned are critical to understanding how MODs are derived and to be able to make intelligent gas selection choices.

Are there good reasons *to* learn this information?

Absolutely, a few of which could save your butt...

I think there are two groups of people out there...those that think we should make scuba diving accessible to everyone under the sun and those that think that the current curriculum is already too dumbed down and needs to be made more comprehensive.

Honestly, the only reason to dumb down the curriculum is to get more students, and thus make more money. While I think it is irresponsible, I can at least respect someone who is up front about that motivation. Business is business.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Let's look at this practically..

Are there *any* good reasons to dumb down the nitrox curriculum? Is it actually too hard?

"dumb down"
Your choice of words for this course:

Pure trash at this point. Have you taken the class? No.
Are you planning on taking the class, or sitting in? No

In my book that is chosen ignorance.
---
Let's look at this practically

Is there *any* good reasons to read the rantings of those who have "chosen ignorance"?

In my opinion, no.

In my opinion, no.

There are no good reasons...It's already incredibly easy and the 2 or 3 simple formulas that need to be learned are critical to understanding how MODs are derived and to be able to make intelligent gas selection choices.

There are no good reasons...It's incredibly easy to sit in on a class before judging it and be able to make informed posts

Are there good reasons *to* learn this information?

Are there good reasons *to* read/listen to "chosen ignorance"?

Absolutely not!

 

[The Chairman]

Again...

it's not a matter of merely "dumbing down"... that's just your elitism and ego talking. It's a matter of teaching them to use the tools that they have and that they are willing to use.

When I was in high school the BRAND NeW TI 10s came out. We were still made to use a slide rule in Chemistry, though they were obviously OBSOLETE. There was a WHOLE section on how to perform the most menial task on a slide rule and the teachers SWORE that getting rid of the sliderule was a "dumbing down" of their curriculae. In actuality, we had a mixture of techno-phobia and the "It's always been taught this way" phenomenon.

Now, can we still teach sliderules??? Of course we could, and use the PRECISE arguments your are proferring us. In realith, you just don't need tables to get a grasp on how N2 loading is affected by NitrOx. You REALLY don't need tables to understand what MOD is and how to dive safely.

 

[Soggy]

it's not a matter of merely "dumbing down"... that's just your elitism and ego talking.

Umm...no. It's dumbing down the curriculum. You have accepted that there are people out there that don't want to do math or that it is too hard to teach it, so have removed it from the class. That is the epitome of dumbing it down.

When I was in high school the BRAND NeW TI 10s came out. We were still made to use a slide rule in Chemistry, though they were obviously OBSOLETE.

It's really very sad that you don't see the fallacy in your analogy.

 

[TekDiveGirl]

Again...

it's not a matter of merely "dumbing down"... that's just your elitism and ego talking. It's a matter of teaching them to use the tools that they have and that they are willing to use.

When I was in high school the BRAND NeW TI 10s came out. We were still made to use a slide rule in Chemistry, though they were obviously OBSOLETE. There was a WHOLE section on how to perform the most menial task on a slide rule and the teachers SWORE that getting rid of the sliderule was a "dumbing down" of their curriculae. In actuality, we had a mixture of techno-phobia and the "It's always been taught this way" phenomenon.

Now, can we still teach sliderules??? Of course we could, and use the PRECISE arguments your are proferring us. In realith, you just don't need tables to get a grasp on how N2 loading is affected by NitrOx. You REALLY don't need tables to understand what MOD is and how to dive safely.

I think they should surely teach sliderules in school -- and the abacus too while they are at it.

 

[Soggy]

"dumb down"
Your choice of words for this course:

Pure trash at this point. Have you taken the class? No.
Are you planning on taking the class, or sitting in? No

In my book that is chosen ignorance.

Sure, I'll get on a plane, fly to florida, take a class I think is being taught in a philosophically irresponsible manner, just to learn what I already know....that a couple formulas are necessary to the safe use and understanding of O2 rich gasses. I'm sorry, but I don't have that kind of time, money, or inclination. Diving involves math, physics, and physiology. Those that can't handle that fact should find a more fitting sport. I don't think there are any golf formulas...

Let me ask you this, NetDoc....how do you teach your students to calculate SAC and minimum gas reserve/rock bottom?

 

[Derek S]

Again...

it's not a matter of merely "dumbing down"... that's just your elitism and ego talking. It's a matter of teaching them to use the tools that they have and that they are willing to use.

When I was in high school the BRAND NeW TI 10s came out. We were still made to use a slide rule in Chemistry, though they were obviously OBSOLETE. There was a WHOLE section on how to perform the most menial task on a slide rule and the teachers SWORE that getting rid of the sliderule was a "dumbing down" of their curriculae. In actuality, we had a mixture of techno-phobia and the "It's always been taught this way" phenomenon.

Now, can we still teach sliderules??? Of course we could, and use the PRECISE arguments your are proferring us. In realith, you just don't need tables to get a grasp on how N2 loading is affected by NitrOx. You REALLY don't need tables to understand what MOD is and how to dive safely.

As an aside Pete (not a comment on the class, I'm staying out of that conundrum), I agree with your HS teachers. Now don't get me wrong, I'm very much for a technically evolved society, but there is something to be said how to get from point A to point B. Students these days are able to type out papers in various apps that automatically check for spelling, grammar and punctuation. What if they turn in a ten-page masterpiece on the Byzantine empire, but know little if anything about how to write?

I'm not blaming the SCUBA industry, it is society as a whole that has changed. Fortunately, poor writing skills aren't likely to cause injury, but diving with the lack of certain nuggets of knowledge coupled with bad decision-making could.

 

[Kim]

You have accepted.........

Apart from the issues of whether it's a good idea or not, why is an Instructor being blamed for conducting a course that an agency produces? Surely, if people have complaints about this course they should be directed at SDI who produces it, not the instructor for giving it. I just looked at their site and apart from their Computer Nitrox Diver course they also have a plain Computer Diver course. It seems to me that if people are going to use computers then it's a good idea if they know how. As for tables in rec dive planning - I can't remember the last time I ever saw anyone using them on rec dives. I'm not saying that that is good.......just the reality.

 

[TheRedHead]

I think they should surely teach sliderules in school -- and the abacus too while they are at it.

The slide rule is not very much different than the PADI wheel.

 

[H2Andy]

Except that it seems to me that you're starting with a given gas while first the diver must decide which gas/gasses they wish to use for the planned series of dives. What about calculating a "best mix"?

this is not necessary for diving Nitrox safely (my criteria). however, it does
come in handy for planning dives if you have other than with "banked" nitrox (usually 32% or 34%) available.

a computer would be pretty unwieldy to do this (it can be done: basically dial
in increasing mixes and see which one exceeds 1.4 PPO2, then pick the next lowest).

the EAD table is much easier to use, but it's not precise (it will go from, for example, 1.34 PPO2 to 1.45 PPO2, since it goes in increments of 10 feet) so ... not exactly the most accurate... but hey ... close enough ...

the easiest way is just to plug in the numbers: 1.4 / [(depth/33) + 1]

again, this is a function that neither tables nor the computer do as well as the
simple math inovolved.

but is it necessary to know this in order to dive nitrox safely? no.