AfterDark
Contributor
IMO a rip off at any price. Everything in those courses should have been learned in OW or AOW already. I learned nothing for $100.00. I paid for a card nothing more. I might as well have burned a C-note in an ashtray.
Nitrox Certification
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My Nitrox class was about $100, and was about 3 hours one evening. After the book and c-card, the instructor was probably making about $25/hour. IMHO, the instructor was underpaid. As a computer programmer, I wouldn't do independent consulting for less than $100/hour.
You may feel that way,but, it is a liability thing . There has to be some kind of documentation that at some time that you demonstrated the know how for this and it is unlikely that you will injure yourself. The person documenting this should be paid, right ? If you wanted this done in ow or adv then that is ok, be prepared to pay for it at that time.
NWgrateful oversimplifies the nitrox course, which (with PADI) doesn't require open water dives. There is the matter of dive planning with nitrox, and oxygen toxicity considerations as well as no decompression limits. My LDS charges right at $100.00 including materials. Much mare than that is a rip off. WIth open water dives, including the nitrox filled tanks, less than $200.00 would be the norm.
DIvemasterDennis
DIvemasterDennis
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The instructor probably made less than you think.
My current cost for NAUI Nitrox student kit is a bit over $60 ... plus shipping. The card, with shipping, is around $20. If your instructor's costs were comparable, he might have made $25 for the class, assuming the student kit and c-card were included in the $100 price you quoted.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
---------- Post added March 19th, 2014 at 08:34 AM ----------
Where did I do that? I believe I stated that the only new skill is analyzing your gas. That is true, assuming you learned dive planning techniques in your OW class ... which you should have. True you will use different tables, but for dive planning they function exactly the same as air tables. NDL's are part of the same dive planning discussion. Oxygen toxicity considerations aren't a skill ... that's knowledge you can read about in a lot of places. Other knowledge that's covered ... which can also be found on the internet without much difficulty ... would include use of alternative (RGBM) tables, discussion about the proper handling of oxygen, limits on per-dive and per-day exposure to oxygen (i.e. the "oxygen clock") and a review of different methods for making nitrox. NAUI also doesn't require open water dives ... I offer them as a service to my students, and supply the nitrox for those dives.
Can we, for goodness sake, please have a discussion without taking it personal? From your description, your class isn't much different than mine, except I include two dives.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
My pay for a nitrox class comes close to minimum wage. You have to remember that there are overhead costs.
I think the problem with nitrox classes and prices is related to history. If you go back 20 years or so, teaching nitrox to OW divers was considered taboo. Using nitrox was considered to be extremely dangerous, a part of technical diving. The agency named International Association of Nitrox and Technical Divers (IANTD) did not get that name because people thought nitrox was so simple that it should be part of the OW course. The same is true for ANDI--American Nitrox Divers International. When PADI finally created a recreational level nitrox course, the course was pretty complex. The exam was 50 questions long, and it had all sorts of mathematical formulas that had to be applied to complex dive scenarios.
The thinking on that has changed dramatically over the years. Recreational nitrox is now considered safe, and all those formulas are pretty much out the window. For example, the possibility of pulmonary oxygen toxicity is now understood to be so extremely remote that it is barely mentioned in the course, whereas I had to demonstrate that I could make the calculations required to keep myself safe from that when I took the test. Maybe someday nitrox will be a part of OW, or at least nitrox certification can be included as one of the possibilities for the AOW course. That day may be coming, but it is not here yet.
I think the problem with nitrox classes and prices is related to history. If you go back 20 years or so, teaching nitrox to OW divers was considered taboo. Using nitrox was considered to be extremely dangerous, a part of technical diving. The agency named International Association of Nitrox and Technical Divers (IANTD) did not get that name because people thought nitrox was so simple that it should be part of the OW course. The same is true for ANDI--American Nitrox Divers International. When PADI finally created a recreational level nitrox course, the course was pretty complex. The exam was 50 questions long, and it had all sorts of mathematical formulas that had to be applied to complex dive scenarios.
The thinking on that has changed dramatically over the years. Recreational nitrox is now considered safe, and all those formulas are pretty much out the window. For example, the possibility of pulmonary oxygen toxicity is now understood to be so extremely remote that it is barely mentioned in the course, whereas I had to demonstrate that I could make the calculations required to keep myself safe from that when I took the test. Maybe someday nitrox will be a part of OW, or at least nitrox certification can be included as one of the possibilities for the AOW course. That day may be coming, but it is not here yet.
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Maybe I'm not reading what you wrote correctly, but as far as I know EANx is an option for AOW.
AfterDark
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So how about I could have been able to buy the books, pamphlets really, and the tables I needed, walk in, take / pass the written test. Cal and use an O2 analyzer. How much should that cost?
---------- Post added March 19th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ----------
Yeah, 3 hours I know! I could hardly stay awake. What a waste of time and money.
Yes, you can do a nitrox dive for AOW, but it does not include certification.
I had no problem staying awake and didn't consider it a waste of time or money at all. Looking back now, yes, the information is pretty trivial with the diving experience I have since then. But, at the time, I really didn't know much about things like oxygen toxicity, and learned it in that class.
If I am not mistaken, now you can do the nitrox coursework online (for PADI) and then go to the LDS for hands on instruction analyzing tanks.
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