New diver - 3 LDSs suggest no BPW - why?

[Eric Sedletzky]

Because the LDS dosen't make enough money on them, new divers are overwhelemed with the whole dive experience, and ZKY posted three times to help and hasn't mentioned he makes a sweet minimalist plate. All adds up to another poodle jacket sold.


Bob
Another satisfied Freedom Plate customer.
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I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

Yeah, but having them around and PROMOTING them, not just having some off brand hanging on the wall that nobody wants would lead to at least a few selling. They don't make as much on them but a little is better than nothing, at least that's what I learned through the last three years of recession being self employed, (not Freedom Plates), but my regular business.
Try telling that to little miss sales lady. Speaking of which, one of our fellow North Coasters saw what we're all using, mostly Freedom Plates since this is freedom plate country. They're about as easy to spot as abalone on the North Coast, and a few like Fisheater are using DSS and there are a few other things but guess what, very few poodle jackets. Notice all the poodlers around here are freshly minted, then we corrupt them, ha ha ha ha.

They get pissed at little miss sales lady when they get smart and go back in there because they were sold something that nobody else around here is using, - except for all the SSU students and guess why that is? because a certain fellow who works at the same place just happens to be the instructor for the SSU classes. There is another gentleman there that is also an instructor that helps out and he was very interested in a BP/W, so the dude calls me and I went there and let him try mine in the pool. Well, word got out that I was hanging around SSU so the LDS sent out a spy to see why I was there figuring I was horning in on their territory. After all, they rely on making thousands off those kids which many of which are broke and surviving off student loans. Talk about stink eye!! holy crap!

So me and my big mouth start up about how much money they could save if they...blah blah blah...and so the story goes.

So, do you see now why I am so hated around here by the diving establishment?
Hell, the LDS that starts with a P likes me better than the place that used to start with a B.
I choose to hide up in Mendocino and go to Sub Surface now, they are my new LDS.

Freedom Plates are coming back BTW. I don't have any right now so that's why I didn't mention it.

 

[travelrider]

Freedom Plates are coming back BTW. I don't have any right now so that's why I didn't mention it.

This one?: http://http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FreedomPlate

That's pretty sweet. Not sure how you thread the strap, but that has to be pretty easy on the shoulder blades.

How soon before you get another run finished?

 

[fisheater]

I'm the inspiration for that other SSU guy asking about BP/Ws.

We were on a great dive one day, in very heavy surge. He was impressed with how still I could get on our safety stop (trim is key!). In his traditional jacket, he was being thrown around by the surge (his 45 deg. angle helped). Upon exiting, he asked "were we in the same water?"

So, he explored BP/W land, but - being tied to the local LDS establishment - ended up with one of the those over-engineered, over-"featured" and over-priced ScubaPro "tech" rigs.

 

[gcarter]

A BC is what it is. It's a place to attach a tank and a bag to hold some air to compensate for buoyancy lost by wetsuit compression, or gained by loss of air mass from the tank.

If all you want is something to hold a tank, you can get by with a small backpack and some webbing, or even just a tank and a rope handle.

If you need to conpensate for buoyancy changes (not actually necessary with a small tank), then you need a bouyancy compensator of some sort. Either a BP/W or a jacket will work just fine.

If you want pockets, you can add them to the plate or it's webbing, or buy a cloth BC that has them. The same goes for d-rings.

You'll find that everybody promotes either what they manufacture, use or carry in stock. The BP/W manufacturers will tell you that theirs is superior because that's what they manufacture. The BP/W users will tell you that theirs is clearly superior because that's what they use. The stores will tell you that a cloth BC is clearly superior because that's what they carry and sell. The cloth BC users will tell you that theirs is better because that's what they use.

I don't manufacture or sell anything, own both, and in my opinion it makes absolutely no difference at all which one you get, unless you're going to be using a set of heavy doubles. A steel BP holds ~100+ Lbs worth of tanks better than a cloth BC.

Other than that, try a few styles in the pool and buy what makes you happy.

flots.

I will quibble with you on one point. A BCD with back inflate should give you close to the same result as a BP/W, but one that wraps around will perform very differently. Comfort, fit, and other issues aside.

 

[herbdb]

Of course you don't want to be a poodler. Everyone knows that if you use a vest BCD you are not much of a diver and never will be a skillfull diver. In another thread some idiot stated that the only way to advance your diving skills was with a BP/W.

Do you people believe some of the tripe you post? Reminds me of the hybrid car drivers who look down their noses at those with inferior vehicles. I am often amazed at some of the prejudiced and demeaning remarks made by the BP/W crowd.

I think it is pretty simple, If you want to get into tech diving or dive doubles, get a BP/W. Beyond that, it is about what you feel comfortable wearing.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

This one?: http://http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FreedomPlate

That's pretty sweet. Not sure how you thread the strap, but that has to be pretty easy on the shoulder blades.

The straps thread through just like an old school backpack. The straps come out of the top slot slightly overlapped and form a V which sends the straps over the trapezius and a very nice angle. It uses the same webbing as any modern BP/W.
They are very nice around the shoulder blades because the plate doesn't interfere with shoulder blade movement at all.
You have full freedom of movement hence the name "freedom Plate".
It also allows the tank to drop in a little closer than the other style plates.

How soon before you get another run finished?

Winter.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I'm the inspiration for that other SSU guy asking about BP/Ws.

We were on a great dive one day, in very heavy surge. He was impressed with how still I could get on our safety stop (trim is key!). In his traditional jacket, he was being thrown around by the surge (his 45 deg. angle helped). Upon exiting, he asked "were we in the same water?"

So, he explored BP/W land, but - being tied to the local LDS establishment - ended up with one of the those over-engineered, over-"featured" and over-priced ScubaPro "tech" rigs.

This is my second source of contempt for some LDS's, making instructors play the "You need to wear what we sell" game.
Instead the instructor should say "No, how 'bout you sell what we wear.

 

[flots am]

Complaints: (1) My instructor insisted (for instructional reasons) that I wear ditchable weights with it. Without those big weight pockets, the BP/W I dove in today would have been less hassle.

Just an FYI, the ditchable weights are necessary to make the skills you learned in your Open Water class work properly.

Until you've been trained how to handle an emergency without an ascent to the surface (cave, wreck, deco, etc. training), make sure you can always ditch enough weight to make yourself positively buoyant, both underwater and at the surface.

It would really suck to be OOA, negatively buoyant, with no buddy nearby and then have to try to ditch your entire rig to make it to the surface.

flots.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Depends on the OW class being taught. I teach with weightbelts and it is no more difficult. Properly weighted divers also are taught to swim the rig up and ditch it at the surface if need be. I try to have my OW students weighted so that they never need to drop more than a couple pounds, if that, to get positive.

And I agree with this:

"It would really suck to be OOA, negatively buoyant, with no buddy nearby and then have to try to ditch your entire rig to make it to the surface."

But if that is the case the diver had problems long before the OOA even occurred. It's one of the reasons I also teach a buddy assisted ascent and support at the surface in my OW class. I have been on many boats and even shore dives where people were seriously overweighted and tried to talk them into dropping a few pounds. Sometimes it works.

Other times they say "Oh, no, my instructor said I needed this much weight until I learn to control my buoyancy better. I'm signed up for a class next week to do that."

They then go on to say they were told that it can take many dives (one student was told a hundred dives- totally serious here) and an AOW and Peak Buoyancy class before they are able to do the things my students have down pretty well by the end of pool session 4. I just hang back and hope they don't do something stupid and require me to assist them and cut my dive short.

 

[Bob DBF]

It would really suck to be OOA, negatively buoyant, with no buddy nearby and then have to try to ditch your entire rig to make it to the surface.

flots.

It would suck worse to be dead.


If my ten pound weight belt isn't pleanty of ditchable weight there are serious issues way before the OOA. As an aside, I don't dive with anything I'm not willing to ditch in a heartbeat. It's a mindset missing in instruction today.



Bob
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I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.