Need: Parts advice for reconditioning Royal Aqua Master double hose regulator

[FlyernDiver]

First of all thanks for your advice and opinions...

I recently came across a Royal Aqua Master in great shape. I have enjoyed studying the various iterations of double hose regulators and what makes them tick. I am also astonished at the support and availability of parts--in fact I can't decide which parts would be best for me to use.

I would like to make this reg into a ten footer--that is, it looks original from ten feet but requires closer inspection to determine it has been restored to better than new. I am not concerned about intricate details, but would like to preserve as much as possible. I don't want to add a Phoenix nozzle, but would like to use a banjo fitting to get an SPG in the system--at least for the time being--until I grow a little more hair on my uh, chest. It will be dove with.

I am looking for some current and definitive information. Much of what I found on the SB, VDH, and VSS forums is at least a few years old and does not jive with what is in their stores now. Barring total confusion, I will be ordering parts by this weekend at the latest.

Hoses. I have found silicone, EPDM, neoprene, and serviceable old hoses for sale. Could someone please compare and contrast what the qualities of the different materials are? VDH and VSS don't really say much about why one material is preferred over another. I am drawn to the silicone because it is a modern material that should last quite a while and be somewhat more easy to keep clean but am suspicious that there may be drawbacks like them being too flexible and collapsing on each inhalation.

Do the silicone hoses perform as good or better than the other available materials?

Same for the silicone mouthpiece valves, duckbill, and diaphragm. Is performance improved by using silicone parts? What are the downsides other than cost and historical inaccuracy?

Next, I'm quite confused about the state of the banjo fitting market. Much of what I read says I will need to spring for a long yoke which should be okay with 3000psi fills. But, there appears to have at one time been a thin model in development that was supposed to work with most valves out there with the short yoke. Is there a banjo fitting on the market that will work with the "short" yoke?

And last, how do I know if mine is a "short" yoke? The total inside length of mine is about 1 1/2" and from the valve o-ring mating surface to the other side is about 1 1/8". Just by eyeballing pics, I think this is a short model, but I'm not sure enough to order a non-returnable part that I might not need.

Thanks for the help folks.

 

[Paladin]

Bryan Pennington at Vintage Double Hose has everything you need. As for hoses, I am using the EPDM on my DAAM and like them. The EPDM hoses are also a little longer than the silicone hoses. They are tough and durable. All the other rubber on my DAAM are silicone and work perfectly. Bryan also sells overhaul kits for the RAAM with all the parts you need.

Both the EPDM and the silicone hoses are excellent replacement hoses and will last for years.

 

[Nemrod]

First of all thanks for your advice and opinions...

I recently came across a Royal Aqua Master in great shape. I have enjoyed studying the various iterations of double hose regulators and what makes them tick. I am also astonished at the support and availability of parts--in fact I can't decide which parts would be best for me to use.

I would like to make this reg into a ten footer--that is, it looks original from ten feet but requires closer inspection to determine it has been restored to better than new. I am not concerned about intricate details, but would like to preserve as much as possible. I don't want to add a Phoenix nozzle, but would like to use a banjo fitting to get an SPG in the system--at least for the time being--until I grow a little more hair on my uh, chest. It will be dove with.

I am looking for some current and definitive information. Much of what I found on the SB, VDH, and VSS forums is at least a few years old and does not jive with what is in their stores now. Barring total confusion, I will be ordering parts by this weekend at the latest.

Hoses. I have found silicone, EPDM, neoprene, and serviceable old hoses for sale. Could someone please compare and contrast what the qualities of the different materials are? VDH and VSS don't really say much about why one material is preferred over another. I am drawn to the silicone because it is a modern material that should last quite a while and be somewhat more easy to keep clean but am suspicious that there may be drawbacks like them being too flexible and collapsing on each inhalation.

Do the silicone hoses perform as good or better than the other available materials?

Same for the silicone mouthpiece valves, duckbill, and diaphragm. Is performance improved by using silicone parts? What are the downsides other than cost and historical inaccuracy?

Next, I'm quite confused about the state of the banjo fitting market. Much of what I read says I will need to spring for a long yoke which should be okay with 3000psi fills. But, there appears to have at one time been a thin model in development that was supposed to work with most valves out there with the short yoke. Is there a banjo fitting on the market that will work with the "short" yoke?

And last, how do I know if mine is a "short" yoke? The total inside length of mine is about 1 1/2" and from the valve o-ring mating surface to the other side is about 1 1/8". Just by eyeballing pics, I think this is a short model, but I'm not sure enough to order a non-returnable part that I might not need.

Thanks for the help folks.

I am not a salesman or rep for either vintage store, both have good products, my vintage lds is vdh because I like the owner and a few of the other guys but that is a positive and not anything at all negative to any others at all, quite the contrary, quality people throughout the vintage community.

I much prefer the silicone hoses and new manufacture silicone mouthpieces, new manufacture "streamline" cage valves and silicone valves and silicone diaphragm which do in particular perform better than NOS parts. I prefer the NOS or vss duckbills however. I also have some vss neoprene hoses and I love them too. Some of the original silicone hoses came from a gentleman in merry old England and they were very authentic looking but tend to be a bit floaty but I like them also and use them. The newest silicone hoses from vdh are superb in performance, correctly buoyancy and just work well and fit well. Silicone will outlast neoprene (probably) and is hypoallergenic and seems to grow less fungus (my opinion) and no smell but then neoprene hoses last an awful long time too. EDPM hoses are heavier, stiffer, often have a funny taste and smell that eventually goes away sorta, are very tough and durable and a bit ugly.

I like the "standard" type banjo, USD copies. Yes, you need a long yoke and you will find some tank valves do not play nice with the banjo, thus the Phoenix for travel to strange and wonderful places where they may not have 40 year old valves on their tanks.

IMO, the standard duty long yoke can be used with care up to 3,000 psi but you will see some stretch and with that comes the possibility of O ring extrusion therefore the "care" to be exercised.

N

 

[herman]

I have both EDPM and silicone hoses, both work fine. If you want a different color than black, then silicone is the only option- I happen to like the yellow ones. I would not bother with serviceable old hoses. They are going to be harder and most likely smell, some actually taste bad.

The internal silicone parts are well worth the money. First off, it's highly unlikely the duckbill and mouthpiece valves are any good, I have yet to see a serviceable set. While you are replacing them, you might as well go with the best performers. The diaphragm may or may not be serviceable but the silicone one way outperforms it and is fairly inexpensive so why not.

To my knowledge you must have a long yoke to use a banjo. VDH has reproductions available. Besides length, there are 2 visible differences between the long and short yoke. The long yoke has straight sides that curve in at the top as opposed to the short yoke that has a straight section up to an angle then another straight section that ends at the yoke knob. The second thing is a little more subtle, most all short yokes have a casting mark (line) along each side, the long yoke is always smooth.

 

[FlyernDiver]

Thanks for the replies.

Herman, Your description perfectly describes my yoke: I guess I have a "short" one:-(

Paladin, I had pretty much planned to order from VDH because their website is far more usable. Is there a reason that I would want to get the "platinum" overhaul kit? It seems to me that it has two sets of gaskets and includes some springs that I am not missing any of. Is there a difference in spring rates, materials, or something else that I am overlooking?

Nemrod,

I prefer the NOS or vss duckbills however.

Can you elaborate on why you prefer the non-silicone? What is the trade-off or performance difference?

Also, just to clarify, are the banjos referenced at vintagedoublehose.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=749 no longer available? Or maybe they are the same ones still sold but with less of a promise to fit anything and everything? Or was that product scrapped altogether? Maybe the question is moot, but I'd still like to understand the evolution of it.

Thanks again guys!

 

[Paladin]

The platinum kit has everything to overhaul the reg (including a new HP seat) and the standard kit assumes you will be re-using some of your parts. I think I would install the platinum kit and have all new parts in the reg for another half century of diving.

 

[herman]

Unless you want to resurface the HP seat, then the platinum set would be the way to go. Resurfacing the seat is not difficult IF it is in reasonable shape and there is no way to know until you open it up. I would also suggest a band clamp. It makes opening the reg a lot easier.
Looks like Bryan has some banjos available. Banjo Fitting-satin finish [Banjo satin] - $35.00 : Vintage Double Hose!, Your online source for all things related to vintage diving

And I misspoke on the yokes, they are OEM not repros.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

There are a couple of things to add here. I prefer the original mouthpieces as they do not bend in current as much as the silicone mouthpiece. I had my new silicone mouthpiece bend enough that it was difficult to hold in my mouth, but that is in very high current on the bottom of the Clackamas River.

Now, about the long yolk. These are available, if you want to go that route. You can also get a Dacor valve (and a few others) with a HP port for a gauge. All the Aquamaster yolks were used by the US Navy on 3000 psig systems. For instance, this photo of the DA Aquamaster is on a set of 3000 psig tanks from US Navy Diving Manual March 1970:

So you really don't need a new yolk to use it on the 3000 psi systems, but over that and you do. You can get a long yolk from an old Conshelf regulator too (none on EBay right now though); the two will fit. Sometimes you can get the Conshelf regulator first stage for $25 or less. But if you want it now, probably VDH is your best bet.

SeaRat

 

[FlyernDiver]

Thanks John!
That was going to be my next question--do I need a silicon mouthpiece too? I'll stick with what I have, it's in great shape. Also, now I know what the j-valve rods look like.

I have a square label, so I'd like to avoid the big beefy yoke if I can get away with it--even though the long one isn't quite correct, it looks mostly correct to all but the most trained eye. Plus, it doesn't look as cool or as old as my tractor tire one does!

Herman,
Those band clamps look exceedingly flimsy, do they ever crack where they are bent out for the screw-holes? Will I really need to tear into this thing more often than prophylacticly, once per year, that I will really regret the c-clips? How many times can the c-clips be reused before they crack? I'm not trying to cheap-out here, I just don't like the idea of my regulator falling apart because the clamp gets sprung first time the reg gets jostled. The clamps on my Conshelfs and 109's are more sufficiently over-engineered to my liking. Or am I worried about nothing?

If anyone could post a pic of the screw area of one of those band clamps I'd sure appreciate it.

Thanks again for all of your help guys. I'll post some pics as soon as SB lets me.

 

[herman]

John, I just looked at 2 old Conshelfs I have, both the yokes have a bore that is too big to use. It will barely fit but just the tips of the nozzle are making contact with the yoke. I would not use it that loose. The ones off the later (diaphragm) Calypsos will not work on DA/RAMs unless you machine a recess in the lower part of the yoke.....I have already tried.