Need Help - Dual Bladder BC, which ones and where to buy

[danvolker]

I am curious Dan, on the dive profiles you described above, what did you use for redundant lift? A bag?

1. Drysuit and 40 pound lift wing. If wing punctures ( Halcyon Explorer wings are really hard to puncture), the drysuit is a lifting device.
2. I dive in a DIR style team based fashion, so redundancy is further completed with buddy assist.
3. I have a Halcyon Surfmat in my storage pouch between my back and backplate...It has more lift than the wing, and an OPV with dump string just like on a wing----though I can not imagine ever needing this for the purpose you describe.
4. I can swim any rig I wear to the surface, absent any lift from wing or suit. Anyone who has dived with me could attest to this.

Typical 280 foot dive to Rb Johnson/Coryn chris for 25 minutes at bottom, I need no more than dual al 80's with 30 cu ft O2 bottle clipped. Dual bladder nonsense would never be considered. Halcyon wing is so slick that even with dry suit I would outswim divers on techna scooters who wore dual 130s with heavy wetsuit and monster dual bladder heavily inflated wings....Heart rate outswimming them would remain under 100 bpm, and keeping pace more like 85 or 90. Relaxing tour speed heart rate around 55 bpm. ( heart rate as a measure of how hard I am exerting, with max HR at 195 and anaerobic threashold ( maximum sustained aerobic power for an hour) at 183 bpm). 25 to 40 miles per day on bicycle is part of my "configuration", as it relates to SAC rate and ability to propel myself throughout dive. If I was to use thick wetsuit and dual bladder BC, plus the monster 130's required with all the extra work, I would be slow and in need of remedial assistance

 

[frogdrvr]

It sounds like you are comfortable with your configuration for your dive environment. There are other options that provide the same level of redundancy, efficiency in differing environments. Where I have been diving recently, we dive wet 5mm, wetsuits comfortable down to about 185. No drysuit needed. Hence the need for redundant lift from a dual bladder wing. It works here and is less comlex than wearing a drysuit.

 

[danvolker]

It sounds like you are comfortable with your configuration for your dive environment. There are other options that provide the same level of redundancy, efficiency in differing environments. Where I have been diving recently, we dive wet 5mm, wetsuits comfortable down to about 185. No drysuit needed. Hence the need for redundant lift from a dual bladder wing. It works here and is less comlex than wearing a drysuit.

Frogdrvr, you are being a good sport on this thread, so please know I intend no offense. I am not sure what is so complex about the dry suit....the first time I ever tried one, it was on an 80 foot dive off Singer Island....it was a wierd sensation to feel the pressure all over your body, but beyond that momentary distraction, there was nothing to using it...and it was great to be warm. I went from this to deep dives with no more getting cold ever. I can use it in any environment I could ever imagine going to....everywhere off of Florida, the Bahamas, Mona Island, Fiji, Farnsworth Banks off of Catalina, or in cold spring fed caves.

If you guys like your wetsuits and monster wings, enjoy the workouts, and may the dive gods smile upon you

 

[iztok]

It works here and is less comlex than wearing a drysuit.

I'll bite.

How is dual bladder less complex than drysuit?

Both have a way to inflate and deflate. I'll argue that drysuit has deflation a little more automated thus less complex.

In both cases you have to manage bubble. Granted this is bit more work in drysuit, thus more complex.

Drysuit is by default connected to your reg vs. dual bladder is only partially connected and to use it you need to connect second bladder. Thus drysuit is less complex.

Now we have 2:1 for drysuit.

Anything I am missing?

 

[frogdrvr]

Double bladder. One bladder is in use during the dive. One bubble to manage. The secondary bladder is unused unless a failur occurs in the primary bladder. Many folks that use a dual bladder disconnect the secondary Lp hose to prevent malfunction. A dual bladder is only slightly thicker than a single bladder and is not designed to have both bladders inflated to the max lift. IE a dual bladder wing with 60lbs in lift is about the same size as a single bladder wing with 60lbs of lift. The idea that you are diving with 120lbs of lift inflated slowing your progress through the water doesnt make sense.

Drysuit. Two bubbles to manage throughout the dive. If you are diving mix, you have to contend with a secondary air source often argon to inflate your drysuit. Another bottle. More complication.

If your drysuit tears not only have you lost your secondary back up bouyancy but you are cold and wet and if you have a deco obligation you are going to remain cold and wet to the point where you may lose function.

If you are diving wet a dual bladder makes sense. It makes no sense to me when people say I have my lift bag for a back up. If you are fighting a current, tired or in an overhead environment its a bad proposition and is much more complicated than connecting your lp hose to your secondary bladder.

 

[frogdrvr]

I guess my point is if you are diving warm water where you dont need a drysuit why wear it?

 

[danvolker]

I guess my point is if you are diving warm water where you dont need a drysuit why wear it?

The thing is, you have to have your wing ( just the single bladder you began with, not in failure mode) heavily inflated to compensate for the loss of lift in your thick wet suit. This will be every deep dive, not just on the one in many hundred dives where a failure might occur.
I think diving a much slicker 40 pound wing, practically empty of gas in it, is a much more enjoyable diving proposition...you can actually kick and glide.

What is so great about a wet suit? They are also hot on the boat in summer--so you need to run water down the inside of the suit while waiting to get in the water ( dry suit wearer has to have water sprayed or poured on him/her to cool down while waiting to get in water if it is really hot out). Wet suits for some people stink, and can be very funky inside...often fit poorly, and are no where near as good at optimizing your comfort once in the water as a dry suit....Again, this is a dive industry solution that looks good in the shop ( cheaper/more sales of it) but works badly in actual use.
For the money spent on a "good wetsuit", there is only a narrow range of temperature where the wetsuit is comfortable, and for water much colder than 75 degrees, they are of little value below 90 feet.

So you get the wetsuit the dive store sells you for $500 less than a dry suit---but, then you need the huge monster lift 60 or 100 pound lift raftlike wings, and the 130 cu ft tanks --- for the price of the double 130's, you could have had the dry suit and al 80s for doubles, and there are several wings from the Halcyon Explorer 40 to Oxycheck which would be much better bang for the buck, and much slicker in the water. Better still, then you could dive ANYWHERE. All you need to modify is what cothing you wear in the dry suit.

Again..what is so great about a wet suit ?

 

[Sas]

Again..what is so great about a wet suit ?

You can pee in them without needing to glue things to yourself.

 

[danvolker]

You can pee in them without needing to glue things to yourself.

There are those of us, who prefer NOT to be peeing all over ourselves. Fortunately, as a guy, I don't need any glue either

 

[Kern]

1. Drysuit and 40 pound lift wing. If wing punctures ( Halcyon Explorer wings are really hard to puncture), the drysuit is a lifting device.
2. I dive in a DIR style team based fashion, so redundancy is further completed with buddy assist.
3. I have a Halcyon Surfmat in my storage pouch between my back and backplate...It has more lift than the wing, and an OPV with dump string just like on a wing----though I can not imagine ever needing this for the purpose you describe.
4. I can swim any rig I wear to the surface, absent any lift from wing or suit. Anyone who has dived with me could attest to this.

Typical 280 foot dive to Rb Johnson/Coryn chris for 25 minutes at bottom, I need no more than dual al 80's with 30 cu ft O2 bottle clipped. Dual bladder nonsense would never be considered. Halcyon wing is so slick that even with dry suit I would outswim divers on techna scooters who wore dual 130s with heavy wetsuit and monster dual bladder heavily inflated wings....Heart rate outswimming them would remain under 100 bpm, and keeping pace more like 85 or 90. Relaxing tour speed heart rate around 55 bpm. ( heart rate as a measure of how hard I am exerting, with max HR at 195 and anaerobic threashold ( maximum sustained aerobic power for an hour) at 183 bpm). 25 to 40 miles per day on bicycle is part of my "configuration", as it relates to SAC rate and ability to propel myself throughout dive. If I was to use thick wetsuit and dual bladder BC, plus the monster 130's required with all the extra work, I would be slow and in need of remedial assistance

Sounds like an interesting deco schedule. What back gas were you using & what is your sac rate?