NACD Instructor standards violation

[bamafan]

My scooter dive? Yeah, how dare I rent a scooter!?! Last I checked, DPV certs aren't required. I was trying to figure out which one I wanted to buy, Michal did as well. We piddled around to the first T of JB with a couple scooters, with him and I trading off scooters to see which ones we liked and comparing thrust and torque. That's a huge sin, Eric, you're right. He wasn't there as an instructor, but as a fellow diver....so his DPV Instructor status means nothing, right?

As far as its appropriateness, I'm pretty sure you have half a story and zero authority to decide what is and what isn't allowed. Also, this thread is about the resignation of 3 members of the NACD and the suspension of Rob for undisclosed reasons. BabyDuck mentioned her instructor for related reasons to a speculation as to Rob's potential suspension. YOU mentioned another, for unrelated reasons.

I will say, this epic attack you've mounted against people not even remotely involved with your hero's demise is really getting old. I'm sick of it. You've mounted a concerted effort, it shows. It's petty, and it's not who I thought you were. Honestly, Eric, I thought bigger of you.

Victor the thing that P'd me off about all this is the sanctimony of your attacks. You have what you call a list of bad instructors and have posted and bragged about them. I really don't care but to me it seems you and Stephen Cushman are the ring leaders and doing the dirty work of others so they can claim they aren't involved or don't post on the forums. Upon being confronted about some of these bad teachers and the incidents you said you witnessed you could not name the students and had no real knowledge of the instructor. You even admitted that you were just repeating what you had been told by others who will not post on their own but tell others crap that may or may not be true then you form unfounded opinions. You can call it an attack but I was just pointing out that nearly every instructor out there is dirty in one way or another and I find it very hypocritical that now that it is someone you know you are calling it unfair. The politics and hypocritical nature of this just P'd me off to no end. I was tired of it and I do feel kind of bad for stooping to the level of others but those that throw rocks shouldn't live in a glass house. I personally don't have anything against anyone involved especially the instructor who was teaching at Eagles Nest. He has always been a nice guy but the BS on some others parts was getting to me. If anything I said in any of my statements is untrue I will gladly post an apology but from the info I have received I do not believe it is.

As far as scootering in a cave I don't have a problem with it. Heck I scootered for 2 years or so before I took a class but I would like to point out that I am not an instructor of any kind. I was just pointing out more of your hypocrisy in that you rented / borrowed scooters from an instructor who owns a dive shop is a PSAI BOD member and CDS instructor as well and went scootering in a cave with another PSAI instructor who to the best of my knowledge is not a DPV instructor. Your buddy Steve Cushman said it best people in a position of authority should be held to a higher standard. I personally don't think that anybody would think this was the safest thing to do or promoted cave conservation. The way I see it this is just more of the pot calling the kettle black and the sanctimony P's me off. I am done with all this crap and you can go on bashing whatever instructor you like because other than the sanctimony of your posts I don't care one way or another.

 

[Jack Hammer]

This thread is on a good roll and shockingly mostly on topic, lets not derail it with personal BS. Maybe the two of you might want to consider taking this to PM.

 

[tbone1004]

Eric, I do think the one thing that the instructors in question have though is the waiver from TDI. It was known that this was going to be controversial, so they went to the agency in question and requested a waiver. TDI had every ability to deny it. Now, if PSAI comes out and says that's dangerous and we don't condone it, that is their prerogative and they have every right to conduct an inquiry into those instructors. It may get them thrown out of PSAI, or it may shed light and spur change, who knows. Point stands that if they have a written waiver, there is no recourse against them from TDI, doesn't stop the other agencies from doing what they will.

If what Rob did was sanctioned by another agency, then that agency has every right to defend him and support him, if it was forbidden by another, that agency has every right to go after him, especially since he was on the board, and then TD. Same with Edd, if he does something uncouth by PSAI's standards whether or not he is teaching as a PSAI instructor at the time, he is always a representative of that agency so PSAI should investigate and make it clear that whether he thinks he's acting on behalf of the agency or not he's always representing them. He is no longer listed as an active instructor for the CDS, and the NACD website has been down for a while, but I'm fairly sure he was never an instructor for them. He is still active with TDI and IANTD, so it is up to them to investigate if they so choose. Michal also has certs with NAUI, so in this case if NAUI/PSAI/IANTD want to investigate, then so be it. No one is going to argue with that, they might disagree but it would be hypocritical to say that just because TDI condoned it, the other agencies should agree.

 

[darushin]

I think agencies going after a instructor for violations while they teaching another agency's course is going to be the best thing since slice butter for lawyers and will do nothing but ensure that nacd and cds won't make it to the end of this decade.


Daru

P.s. I'm not saying Rob isn't a fool for doing what he did.

 

[Aotus]

Eric, it really does look like you've steered the discussion to serve a purpose, to discredit Edd and Michal.

 

[billgraham]

People are so cute when they talk **** behind a pseudonym. Go look it up.

 

[victorzamora]

I really don't care but to me it seems you and Stephen Cushman are the ring leaders and doing the dirty work of others so they can claim they aren't involved or don't post on the forums.

Your buddy Steve Cushman said it best people in a position of authority should be held to a higher standard. I personally don't think that anybody would think this was the safest thing to do or promoted cave conservation. The way I see it this is just more of the pot calling the kettle black and the sanctimony P's me off. I am done with all this crap and you can go on bashing whatever instructor you like because other than the sanctimony of your posts I don't care one way or another.

I just would like to say that you're adorable when you're wrong. I've met Steve Cushman exactly once. Doing other's dirty work? I know who you're accusing me of "doing the dirty work for" and I'll tell you I have yet to have a conversation with "he-who-must-not-be-named" about this entire thing. I have also sent Steve exactly ONE message. As for the "pot calling the kettle black".....must I point out your sock-puppetude for Rob? You and others have gone out of your way to bash Edd whenever you get a chance, all in the name of drawing attention away from Rob. Considering I've not had one conversation with Edd or Steve regarding any of this....I'd like to know who you think is really doing the dirty work of others.

However, Jack Hammer is right. It's unfortunate that you had to derail this thread to bring in a couple of instructors not involved AT ALL with any of the happenings here and that aren't even members with the agency involved.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Social media discussions such as this thread on scubaboard.com are instrumental in being a catalyst for dialogue among divers, dive professionals, and sometimes at higher levels within the industry such as agencies, manufacturers, standards bodies, etc. To empower social media beyond this role and to circumvent due process would be to allow erroneous assumptions, unfounded accusations, rumors, and speculation to be given more weight than facts. Social media is not the place to file an official grievance. Contacting a training agency directly is the proper method by which to start a quality control inquiry. When an instructor is teaching for one agency all legal and insurance issues are tied to the relationship between the instructor, the agency, the insurer, and the respective legal teams. The community standard is that agencies respect the standards of other agencies and while we may have personal opinions about standards we agree to disagree and accept that instructors who are members of more than one agency are still acting in good faith and abiding by standards when following the standards set forth by another training agency.

 

[karstdvr]

delete

 

[victorzamora]

I think agencies going after a instructor for violations while they teaching another agency's course is going to be the best thing since slice butter for lawyers and will do nothing but ensure that nacd and cds won't make it to the end of this decade.

It's starting to look more and more like whatever Rob got suspended for is a whole lot more involved than a Trimix class in Lower Orange Grove. There's certainly some more to this story, right? It'd be great if Rick Murcar and/or the NACD would put out an official statement regarding the outcome/events. I guess we'll wait and see, right? In the mean time, should Rob's entourage keep taking pot shots?