NACD Instructor standards violation

[nakatomi]

isn't it SOP in situations like this across many professions to suspend during the investigation and then clear afterwards?

Come on, you can only suspend someone if you have sufficient initial suspicion. The claim needs to be substantiated in some form, in order to even begin investigating.

Look at how Jim handled it, that was following proper procedure.

 

[Pavao]

My favorite day in all of motorsports was the day AFTER the 2002 FIFA World Cup. Rubens Barichello (Brazil) beat Michael Schumacher (Germany) the day after Brazil beat Germany 2-0. Rubens, under his nomex, wore a shirt celebrating Brazil 2 - Germany 0. Both the score of the World Cup, and celebrating two victories for Brazil over Germany....the F1 race and the World Cup.

I don't remember much the day after that game lol
Rubinho winning a race is definitely a day to be remembered though. We miss Senna dearly, F1 was huge for us

 

[tbone1004]

and how do we know that it hasn't been? Everyone is speculating that it is the OG incident, but what if it isn't? What if it is another incident and because it has been substantiated but not confirmed, they have chosen not to release full details until they have confirmed everything?

If a student goes to the agency and says "my instructor did this, and I didn't feel safe", and whatever he/she did violates training standards, that is substantiated enough to launch an investigation and suspend the instructor until it is cleared or verified.

 

[bamafan]

isn't it SOP in situations like this across many professions to suspend during the investigation and then clear afterwards? Police are probably at the forefront of this. If he violated training standards and was reported with enough evidence to suspend, it meant that the violation was an incident that put students safety in danger, as such he should be suspended from teaching until it has been determined whether the incident was isolated or not. Same thing if a cop breaks the rules to the point that it could lead to their expulsion, suspend them until the investigation is complete to ensure that another incident doesn't occur. They can't safely allow him to continue teaching if the accusation was such that a students safety was in question, reason; what happens if he commits the same violation again and the result is student death or hospitalization? Student then sues instructor, and then the NACD when it is found he was already under investigation for a similar incident but was still allowed to teach. If he didn't suspend them then he would have lost his mind, suspending him is the safest course of action for both the agency, the instructor, and any potential students.

TBone I personally have no problem with the suspension during the investigation of a reported incident but posting it publicly to me seems very unprofessional. If standards were broken and it can be proven then by all means suspend them. But even then I do not see what would be gained from posting it publicly. Just my opinion as I think it makes the NACD and Rick personally look very in mature.

 

[Wookie]

Come on, you can only suspend someone if you have sufficient initial suspicion. The claim needs to be substantiated in some form, in order to even begin investigating.

Look at how Jim handled it, that was following proper procedure.

I think that a training agency has to act quickly to get an "Unsafe" instructor off the streets. Look at the Boy Scout case in Utah if you don't agree. However, the investigation needs to happen quickly, efficiently, and quietly so rumors don't start. If that means hiring an outside investigator, so be it. It needs to be quick because someone's livlihood is or isn't on the line. It needs to be efficient because it shouldn't drag on forever, as this one seems to be doing. It needs to be quiet because the initial accusation might be wrong.

From the outside looking in and not really caring, it seems to me that the NACD can't get out of it's own way, much less conduct an quick, efficient, quiet investigation. This thread, and entire situation should be a complete embarrassment for the entire body and especially so for the board. The diving world is laughing at the NACD, those that care enough to laugh.

The pie is shrinking. There are too many organizations out there servicing too few divers. That applies to liveaboards, dive shops, day boats, cave instructors, and training agencies. Personally, I'm looking for an exit strategy, and "last man standing" isn't it. Maybe the BOD needs to look and see if the organization itself is even viable or necessary any more.

 

[tbone1004]

immature in your opinion, but at the same time he is trying to increase visibility of the organization. There is nothing wrong with him posting that an instructor is suspended under allegations of training standards violations. This is made much worse by the fact that at the time of the report, he would have been Training Director, that makes this incident much more important as his appointment to TD was under a lot of scrutiny due to claims of violations long before his appointment. It is a difficult situation they are in on trying to be open and honest with their members as well as follow the rules. They had to make this public, there really wasn't any choice in the matter. Hopefully it moves quickly to verdict so everything is made public so this speculation stops.

Note Rick also can't confirm or deny which violation is in question because that becomes damaging to the instructors reputation. If he deny's the OG incident then it indicates there is another one, if he confirms the OG incident everyone goes up in arms because of how long ago it was, etc....

 

[kensuf]

I agree with Frank that you have to get an "unsafe" instructor out of circulation quickly until the investigation is completed and he's either reinstated, or permanently removed. But I think the NACD needed to make a public statement about the investigation given that this was their TD.

BTW -- Frank, I have a buddy that sold his dive operation in Key Largo back in 1998 and he now does fishing charters out of Tavernier. He works his ass off to provide a high concierge quality service, but the money/bull factor is better.

 

[nakatomi]

Note Rick also can't confirm or deny which violation is in question because that becomes damaging to the instructors reputation. If he deny's the OG incident then it indicates there is another one, if he confirms the OG incident everyone goes up in arms because of how long ago it was, etc....

You got that wrong. He can't confirm or tell, simply because he has nothing worthwhile.
There are no claims to be made public because all he has, is hearsay, rumors, maybe spiced with a few lies.

Most of what Rick Murcar has posted over the past weeks on Scubaboard, has caused severe damage to the NACD.
To me as a member, this is nothing but disgraceful.

He has made the organization a laughing stock by claiming to step forward and save the world of cave instruction, with all of that blowing up in his face.
First he loses three of his board members, we can only speculate why that happened with the resignation letters being confidential.
Now the suspension fiasco.

Rick, I will say this in public since that's what you seem to like so much. Please do the membership of the NACD one last favor.
Don't run the organization completely into the ground, step back from your BoD post and let someone else clean up the mess.

 

[ucfdiver]

You got that wrong. He can't confirm or tell, simply because he has nothing worthwhile.
There are no claims to be made public because all he has, is hearsay, rumors, maybe spiced with a few lies.

Most of what Rick Murcar has posted over the past weeks on Scubaboard, has caused severe damage to the NACD.
To me as a member, this is nothing but disgraceful.

He has made the organization a laughing stock by claiming to step forward and save the world of cave instruction, with all of that blowing up in his face.
First he loses three of his board members, we can only speculate why that happened with the resignation letters being confidential.
Now the suspension fiasco.

Rick, I will say this in public since that's what you seem to like so much. Please do the membership of the NACD one last favor.
Don't run the organization completely into the ground, step back from your BoD post and let someone else clean up the mess.

You really think Rick is embarrassing the NACD? What, exactly, has he said that's damaging? If anything, he's offered a glimmer of hope that someone actually cares.

Rob is being accused of teaching Trimix to intro to cave divers. No person on this thread believes this falls within the intent of certification limits for ANY agency. The only argument here is whether or not the standards explicitly prohibit it and if there's a loophole because the trimix course was for another agency. You know darn well if you guys weren't dive buddies you'd be all over this. I'm pretty confident if the story was fabricated that both of you would be the first to call it out as such. Rather than tiptoe around it, would you mind at least confirming or denying that you have knowledge that Rob taught intro divers trimix in lower OG?

Everyone wants to piss and moan about cave politics, blah blah blah. Most of the heated political stuff I've seen has been because of lack of transparency. Look at how people gossiping around Jim's accident came to a screeching halt with just a single internet thread.

 

[LiteHedded]

You got that wrong. He can't confirm or tell, simply because he has nothing worthwhile.
There are no claims to be made public because all he has, is hearsay, rumors, maybe spiced with a few lies.

Most of what Rick Murcar has posted over the past weeks on Scubaboard, has caused severe damage to the NACD.
To me as a member, this is nothing but disgraceful.

He has made the organization a laughing stock by claiming to step forward and save the world of cave instruction, with all of that blowing up in his face.
First he loses three of his board members, we can only speculate why that happened with the resignation letters being confidential.
Now the suspension fiasco.

Rick, I will say this in public since that's what you seem to like so much. Please do the membership of the NACD one last favor.
Don't run the organization completely into the ground, step back from your BoD post and let someone else clean up the mess.

i mean, he really hasn't posted all that much. he posted that three guys are no longer on the board (confirming what rob already posted on his fb) and one of which is currently being investigated for standards violations (and is currently suspended pending the outcome of the investigation)

it seems like you and rob are friends and you're pissed off about all this. but the guy really hasn't done anything but release a statement confirming what rob had already posted