NACD Instructor standards violation

[PfcAJ]

He fits without having to manipulate tanks or use body contortion?
Looks minor to me.

I guess the move where you flipped over on your back to get through doesn't count.

Youre too much.

 

[Michael Angelo]

Let's get something straight
Orange Grove - 60 ft ish cave
Lower Orange Grove - 90 ft basically a single room
Lower Lower Orange Grove - haven been then in a while but seems to me to start at 100 ft to 190 ft I was back mount then with 120's so if you want to dive it. Go to lower orange grove and poke around in the rocks till you find a hole large enough for the largest guy in cave diving can fit in with 120's and a stage bottle and not scrap the walls. That was 10 years ago so I am sure other divers banged the crap out of the rocks and made it wider since then.

 

[nakatomi]

I guess the move where you flipped over on your back to get through doesn't count.

Youre too much.

Going past the restriction, the passage gets somewhat vertical. It's a little bit of a corkscrew but I'm never on my back.

Check out the footage on the way up, it provides a much better view and it's more or less in one shot to (or even through) the restriction.

 

[LiteHedded]

Heroes are out in full force today. Let's turn into divers loose in alachua too.

 

[bamafan]

I don't have a lot of dives down that way but I did do Rock Bluff. Is this a small cave to the GUE guys?

 

[Michael Angelo]

So, I understand 0 (zero) investigating was done, all that was done was wait for the complaint to provide with names?


I get your point, but at the same time, doesn't all complaints start off as "hearsay" or "rumors", hence the need for an investigation, otherwise it would be the agencies just expelling any instructor anytime anyone


so enlighten us. Exactly what other evidence other then witnesses was Jim suppose to be looking for? I mean what other evidence should Jim have looked for, is there CDS - CSI unit? Or cameras mounted in the cave to catch would be offenders? Maybe a guy following classes with a video camera but then that's an eye witness. So what other evidence is there? I mean to accuse Jim of not investigating is well pure heresy

 

[PfcAJ]

I don't have a lot of dives down that way but I did do Rock Bluff. Is this a small cave to the GUE guys?

No. It's small if you're an intro to cave diver.

 

[tridacna]

Would someone care to summarise what this is all about? Obvious to those in the know I suppose but to us non-cavers, a little elucidation would be wonderful.

 

[Pavao]

Pavao, i think an investigation into allegations is fine. Do you truly believe some one should be publicly named in a press release, damaging reputations, based solely on hearsay and rumors? "Come on!!!"

Sent via

Absolutely not, I believe that's actually criminal, isn't it?

But I'm not sure why you're asking me that, all I'm saying is that allegations should be investigated. Any case should not be dismissed without first investigating. Any instructor should not suffer any consequences without first having the case be investigated.

See, I'm not picking any sides here, I just used this specific case as an example to point out the flaw in the system, at least to my eyes, maybe I'm commenting in here still thinking about the other thread.

---------- Post added April 22nd, 2015 at 07:05 PM ----------

Imagine this, person calls 911 and says there's a body laying on the floor he can kinda see through a window, he peeked because he heard a noise he thinks it's a gun shot, there was some loud noises and then it stopped, 911 operator tells him unless he can provide the name of the "deceased", the gun, video evidence of the killer shooting, a confession from the killer and 3 other independent eye witnesses to testify they saw the shooting, then they can't/won't do anything about it.
Come on!!!

Well that's a silly point. Imagine that a guy calls the police saying he head a gunshot and kinda sees a bloody body on the floor. Then image that the police arrive with the paramedics then kick in the front and back doors guns out. Only to find that there is no body in fact the guy was napping in his bed. Imagine a guy has an heart attack and dies because the paramedics were busy with a false alarm. Then the police find out the caller had a long history standing feud with the guy in the house and just got a kick out of watching the doors get kicked in.

If you take away a mans livelihood you better have your i's dotted and cross your t's.[/QUOTE]

Michael, if you read it again, you'll see that I gave an example where there is a possibility of a murder, the guy doesn't know for sure, may very well not be true, but the point is, if police only "investigate" crimes where callers are the ones responsible for providing all the evidence, how many crimes do you think would be solved?

Btw, in your example, that is an improper way to handle the situation by the police, do you see them busting down doors guns out just because someone makes a phone call? I believe they have better training than that.

I think it's also fair to point out I have no side in this, as I wrote above to Jack, just using it as example to point out a flaw in the system, not the outcome of this particular case, I don't even know any involved.

 

[Aotus]

I have no dog in this fight. Just looking at Oliver's video (really cool video as always Oli!). Now, that restriction looks like a lot of fun. 6 months ago at Intro, that would have been a bit much. That said, everyone is going to have different comfort levels with the many new variables in the cave environment. IMHO, at Intro, I feel like just the OH, keeping track of a line, gas management, and all the new drills is plenty without acrobatics. Just my .02

---------- Post added April 22nd, 2015 at 07:07 PM ----------

Would someone care to summarise what this is all about? Obvious to those in the know I suppose but to us non-cavers, a little elucidation would be wonderful.

:laughing: