NACD Instructor standards violation

[Hetland]

Victor that is nice in theory but it takes money to run an agency and with a small number of instructors that makes it harder to get enough money coming in to pay the light bill. I think GUE has done an excellent job of positioning themselves as the high end training agency. Do you really think the NACD would ever be able to overtake them in this segment of the market. Now with all the other training agencies out there what is NACD's market going to be? If the high end is taken and you are getting killed by numerous other agencies what is left? Remember the market for cave instruction is small. I have heard it said that 3% of the US population dives and less than 3% of that population cave dives. I really don't see them growing much. It is sad but the NACD and CDS are very likely going to be gone in my opinion.

I don't know how much they collect from each student, but according to the 2013 990 for the NACD, the organization had a significant loss for 2013 (most recent data available to me). They had a fraction of the dues coming in for 2013 compared to previous years. I don't know their business model, but it seems to me that annual dues would be able to make up for fluctuations in the number of divers trained each year. If no one is paying dues, you've got a problem that will last as long as the budget surplus from previous years.

I think that's part of the big problem. People see dysfunction, and it's harder for them to write out a check. The goals of the NACD are worthy of support, but to support those goals through this organization, you also (apparently) have to support the dysfunction....

 

[cerich]

there are no such thing as post certification standards, there are only recommendations.

Standards only apply to an instructor that is affiliated with an agency teaching that agencies class. Unless the agreement they sign with the agency specifically addresses non teaching behaviors.

That is interesting.

I checked the 2014 NACD standards. The intro class has a "limit" of 100', the full cave class has a 130' limit.
However the standards are very much unclear about whether the term "limits" only applies to training, or as post certification limits too.

And if theses limits do apply to certified divers, as they would need to in this case, how can a full cave certified diver ever do a Trimix class in the first place?

Rick, can you enlighten us on how this example James quoted would technically break standards?

---------- Post added April 22nd, 2015 at 03:34 PM ----------

So if I am interpreting this thread correctly the instructor was teaching a class by another agency (a class that the NACD doesn't even offer) and through the teaching of this class the NACD says he violated their standards..

If this is indeed the case, than Rob needs a lawyer and the NACD needs D&O Insurance.

 

[LiteHedded]

if he really taught a trimix class to an intro diver at lower orange grove then shame on him and he doesn't deserve to be the training director of any agency.

 

[PfcAJ]

ITT: robs girlfriends coming to defend his bad decisions by trying to find loopholes in the wording of a more or less dysfunctional organization's ambiguous standards.

 

[nakatomi]

if he really taught a trimix class to an intro diver at lower orange grove then shame on him and he doesn't deserve to be the training director of any agency.

Would you care to explain what makes you feel that way?
Aren't you with an agency that requires using Trimix below 100'?

ITT: robs girlfriends coming to defend his bad decisions by trying to find loopholes in the wording of a more or less dysfunctional organization's ambiguous standards.

I don't think the suspension was for a decision you do not like, it was for a violation of training standards.

 

[LiteHedded]

Would you care to explain what makes you feel that way?

because of the depth, the silt, the deep restrictions.
are you serious? do you feel like it's an appropriate place to take an intro to cave diver?

Aren't you with an agency that requires using Trimix below 100'?

i'm not 'with' any agency. but if you're talking about gue I can assure you they wouldn't teach tech 1 or 2 to a cave 1 diver in lower orange grove

 

[nakatomi]

because of the depth, the silt, the deep restrictions.
are you serious? do you feel like it's an appropriate place to take an intro to cave diver?

The only restriction I am aware of (in sidemount) is minor and not deep. Not sure how deep exactly, but above 100'. For a diver who has his/her act together, it's not really a problem, certainly not the silt.

Also we do not know what kind of Trimix class it was, it could have been recreational trimix, maybe just to the gold line or slightly beyond, even without incurring a deco obligation.

 

[LiteHedded]

The only restriction I am aware of (in sidemount) is minor and not deep. Not sure how deep exactly, but above 100'. For a diver who has his/her act together, it's not really a problem, certainly not the silt.

Also we do not know what kind of Trimix class it was, it could have been recreational trimix, maybe just to the gold line or slightly beyond, even without incurring a deco obligation.

I think we'll just agree to disagree on this one. Recreational Trimix in a cave past a restriction? I'm not sure that's a thing

 

[PfcAJ]

I don't think the suspension was for a decision you do not like, it was for a violation of training standards.

Violating training standards when you're the training director is a bad decision....

---------- Post added April 22nd, 2015 at 05:37 PM ----------

And Oliver , have you even done the lower og circuit? It doesn't sound like you have.

 

[nakatomi]

Violating training standards when you're the training director is a bad decision....

I agree and that is what this thread is about. I would just like to hear from Rick exactly what training standards were violated.

And Oliver , have you even done the lower og circuit? It doesn't sound like you have.

[video=youtube;7YyV9CVLeHA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyV9CVLeHA[/video]