Mulling over BP/W options...
- Thread starter drrich2
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
OP
drrich2
Contributor
@Eric Sedletzky mentioned in an e-mail I could share the more detailed info. he gave me about the issues involved in 'coloring' a stainless steel backplate. He also discussed the issue with aluminum a bit. I'm posting here, in case it may help someone else.
"I’ve never had a request for a painted plate. I suppose getting it powder coated would be about the only option I’d consider. However, no coating system is completely 100% waterproof, so what potentially could happen is salt water could seep into areas where bolts go through or inside slots where webbing goes through and constantly wears the surface and eventually chips out the powder coating allowing salt water to crawl underneath the powder coat layer. Powder coating doesn’t breathe nor does it have any zinc galvanic benefits like the zinc coatings that would be on steel tanks. Power coating is also thick and tough. Part of the problem with that is if there is a problem forming underneath it doesn’t show until it’s really bad and begins to bubble and lift the powder coat. Stainless can be subject to pit corrosion or black rust as it’s also known. What happens is corrosion will start and go inside the stainless similar to a tooth cavity, whereas other metals corrode from the outside in. This normally is never a problem unless the stainless can’t dry out from salt water exposure. Powder coated aluminum is exceptionally bad at corroding under powder coating. The best thing for aluminum is to either leave it open so it can breathe and dry out or have it anodized.
The best thing for anything stainless is to leave it open so it can breathe and let it form it’s natural chromium oxide coating that happens when it is exposed to oxygen. This is what makes it “stainless”, it’s the invisible layer of chromium oxide on the surface. Oxygen can’t get past this to continue to corrode the alloy, and it continues to “repair” itself when ever this layer is removed microscopically.
Hope all this helps.
Short answer, no I don’t recommend getting stainless coated at all, just leave it.
I’m not so sure shiny is a thing, I just think there is a lot of gear made from stainless these days and bare stainless has proven to be the most durable solution for anti corrosion."
"I’ve never had a request for a painted plate. I suppose getting it powder coated would be about the only option I’d consider. However, no coating system is completely 100% waterproof, so what potentially could happen is salt water could seep into areas where bolts go through or inside slots where webbing goes through and constantly wears the surface and eventually chips out the powder coating allowing salt water to crawl underneath the powder coat layer. Powder coating doesn’t breathe nor does it have any zinc galvanic benefits like the zinc coatings that would be on steel tanks. Power coating is also thick and tough. Part of the problem with that is if there is a problem forming underneath it doesn’t show until it’s really bad and begins to bubble and lift the powder coat. Stainless can be subject to pit corrosion or black rust as it’s also known. What happens is corrosion will start and go inside the stainless similar to a tooth cavity, whereas other metals corrode from the outside in. This normally is never a problem unless the stainless can’t dry out from salt water exposure. Powder coated aluminum is exceptionally bad at corroding under powder coating. The best thing for aluminum is to either leave it open so it can breathe and dry out or have it anodized.
The best thing for anything stainless is to leave it open so it can breathe and let it form it’s natural chromium oxide coating that happens when it is exposed to oxygen. This is what makes it “stainless”, it’s the invisible layer of chromium oxide on the surface. Oxygen can’t get past this to continue to corrode the alloy, and it continues to “repair” itself when ever this layer is removed microscopically.
Hope all this helps.
Short answer, no I don’t recommend getting stainless coated at all, just leave it.
I’m not so sure shiny is a thing, I just think there is a lot of gear made from stainless these days and bare stainless has proven to be the most durable solution for anti corrosion."
- Messages
- 26,281
- Reaction score
- 5,880
- # of dives
- I'm a Fish!
my .02 and I'm not a BP/W owner. Maybe some of this was already covered but I'm not going to read the whole thread.
Anecdotally I once tried on my shop owners plate. I don't recall the brand (it was a better one) but although it was real stable, I personally didn't like the feel of the plate across my shoulders - .I'm sure it's not a problem with a wetsuit but I don't own/dive in one. It also took him about `10 mins to re-configure it for me as I'm a lot taller. Took it on/off about 2-3 times after he showed me how to get into it to get it right.
They sell backplate covers for some models. I think I might like one in the tropics where I only dive in a t-shirt as a steel plate sitting in the hot sun on the way to a dive site could get pretty warm.
Also I wouldn't get a powder-coated one but anodized if you go aluminum. I've seen blue, orange, red (Hog?) and purple. But it may show wear around the holes over time.
Personally Richard you strike me as more of a soft backplate user. Look hard at a Zeagle Express Tech Deluxe as you can add either of their weight systems, pockets and many of their wings. Zeagle pockets are pricey also - Dive Gear Express has some less expensive ones - they all slide on over the straps in some way. Zeagle wings are horseshoe but have at least 3 and sometimes 4 dumps. Also you just put it on and tighten the straps - no pre-adjusting - which admittedly you likely only do once. I doubt you'll ever break anything but if you do, it's all modular so you replace that piece.
Also works with your Air2 with the same adapter you use now most likely. If not the dealer will likely include it. I personally like their BX inflator instead as it allows you to flush the wing with a garden hose easily. But it's not an oc-to-inflator.
There's others also,I think the Tanspack is one? I think Hollis sells one once also. Possibly Apeks?
Not as rock solid as a steel plate but do you care? I would when carrying it on flights - steel plates are about 6lbs, AL suprisingly not much less.
I'd pay a bp/w owner or shop to configure it if you get one. From what I've read it's important to do it right first.
Anecdotally I once tried on my shop owners plate. I don't recall the brand (it was a better one) but although it was real stable, I personally didn't like the feel of the plate across my shoulders - .I'm sure it's not a problem with a wetsuit but I don't own/dive in one. It also took him about `10 mins to re-configure it for me as I'm a lot taller. Took it on/off about 2-3 times after he showed me how to get into it to get it right.
They sell backplate covers for some models. I think I might like one in the tropics where I only dive in a t-shirt as a steel plate sitting in the hot sun on the way to a dive site could get pretty warm.
Also I wouldn't get a powder-coated one but anodized if you go aluminum. I've seen blue, orange, red (Hog?) and purple. But it may show wear around the holes over time.
Personally Richard you strike me as more of a soft backplate user. Look hard at a Zeagle Express Tech Deluxe as you can add either of their weight systems, pockets and many of their wings. Zeagle pockets are pricey also - Dive Gear Express has some less expensive ones - they all slide on over the straps in some way. Zeagle wings are horseshoe but have at least 3 and sometimes 4 dumps. Also you just put it on and tighten the straps - no pre-adjusting - which admittedly you likely only do once. I doubt you'll ever break anything but if you do, it's all modular so you replace that piece.
Also works with your Air2 with the same adapter you use now most likely. If not the dealer will likely include it. I personally like their BX inflator instead as it allows you to flush the wing with a garden hose easily. But it's not an oc-to-inflator.
There's others also,I think the Tanspack is one? I think Hollis sells one once also. Possibly Apeks?
Not as rock solid as a steel plate but do you care? I would when carrying it on flights - steel plates are about 6lbs, AL suprisingly not much less.
I'd pay a bp/w owner or shop to configure it if you get one. From what I've read it's important to do it right first.
Hog has a soft plate package too. Not dove but did see in shop.
HOG Total Buoyancy Control System Package
And it might have already been posted but I think Aqualung has one too.
HOG Total Buoyancy Control System Package
And it might have already been posted but I think Aqualung has one too.
OP
drrich2
Contributor
Any thoughts on the disadvantages on going with a soft back plate instead of an aluminum one?
Discussions on the forum seem to heavily skew toward stainless steel vs. aluminum.
I wear a 3 mm Henderson shorty. Used to do most tropical diving without it. Someone once opined even those who don’t feel the need may benefit in air consumption by retaining core heat. And it extends my comfort range to water a little cooler. Bought a front zip version and now use it all the time unless I need the 5 mm.
Discussions on the forum seem to heavily skew toward stainless steel vs. aluminum.
I wear a 3 mm Henderson shorty. Used to do most tropical diving without it. Someone once opined even those who don’t feel the need may benefit in air consumption by retaining core heat. And it extends my comfort range to water a little cooler. Bought a front zip version and now use it all the time unless I need the 5 mm.
Johnoly
Contributor
- Messages
- 4,279
- Reaction score
- 6,000
- # of dives
- 2500 - 4999
Everyone dives differently and there is no right or wrong configurations if they work for you. One of the most important qualities I want in all of my gear (BC/Reg/Mask/gun) is it should feel 100% comfortable and need zero attention underwater, totally distraction free. I dove a rental BC on vacation once with a tiny AL80 and it was a soft backpack. That tank wobbled so much and no matter how much I tried to tighten every strap, as soon as I leaned off center it flopped. Just my vote, but stability is your friend.
Wanna have some fun? Google Kydex back plate. And YES you can actually saw/cut your own kydex plate and form/bend it exactly how you want it right in your kitchen oven. Light weight at heck and not difficult with a dremel tool. And before you ask,,,Yep,,it comes in colors too !!
- Messages
- 26,281
- Reaction score
- 5,880
- # of dives
- I'm a Fish!
Inherently a hard plate is the most stable.
When I tried on an Express Tech (in the store with tank) it did wiggle a little but no more - and likely less than your Avid. I dive a Ranger and it has never been an issue with trim or balance. I tore off the valve retention strap years ago so although it sags a little on the boat, it doesn't seem to matter diving. What seems to matter more is how tight the tank straps are.
You can also remove the strap cushions from the ET since you'll be in the 3mil. I would probably do that in a t-shirt also. Personally I'm willing to trade a little stability and need for more weight for comfort - I love my lumbar pad when I lean back on long kicks out.And padded shoulder straps - we do some long carries on shore dives - esp. in Hawaii. SoCal also when I used to dive there - some parking lots are a block or two down the steps to the water..
Some bp/w's get more stability from having a harder material used for the harness so I'd certainly try b4 you buy if possible.
When I tried on an Express Tech (in the store with tank) it did wiggle a little but no more - and likely less than your Avid. I dive a Ranger and it has never been an issue with trim or balance. I tore off the valve retention strap years ago so although it sags a little on the boat, it doesn't seem to matter diving. What seems to matter more is how tight the tank straps are.
You can also remove the strap cushions from the ET since you'll be in the 3mil. I would probably do that in a t-shirt also. Personally I'm willing to trade a little stability and need for more weight for comfort - I love my lumbar pad when I lean back on long kicks out.And padded shoulder straps - we do some long carries on shore dives - esp. in Hawaii. SoCal also when I used to dive there - some parking lots are a block or two down the steps to the water..
Some bp/w's get more stability from having a harder material used for the harness so I'd certainly try b4 you buy if possible.
Haven't read all seven pages
I use a soft back plate for my twinsets (10L twins) as I don't need any additional weight, although I use a 4lb tail weight when diving my small twin AL50s, but I have read that you don't dive twins.
When diving with a single AL80 I have a DiveRite SS back plate and find that good enough with a 2lb weight on a cam band lower down on the tank. With a steel 12L tank no additional weight is required and that is wearing both 3mm and 5mm suits.
When I switch to a drysuit I need more weight and use a weightbelt.
As with all dive gear, a lot of trial and error is required before getting it right.
For what it's worth my wings and BPs are all DiveRite
OP
drrich2
Contributor
I know a dive shop not too far away where I looked at some gear recently; when I asked about BP/W options online, I was told "We carry Apeks, Dive Rite, Zeagle, and more." At their shop I looked at an OMS wing, some Dive Rite stuff, some Zeagle... It was later back home I checked into Apeks.
Someone on the thread suggested I look at Hollis (which I don't think the LDS carries); online I saw mixed reviews. I'm learning toward trying to get a gear configuration package I can get at the LDS, by way of thanks for their time and help, and so they can help assemble & fit it. Despite my hopes to avoid a 'Franken-rig,' it's looking like that may happen.
What I (think) I want:
1.) AL BP, but black or some other dark color. No 'naked metal' look. OMS and Zeagle have black AL BP; it looks like Apeks only has the naked metal (or near it) look, no black, etc...
2.) Single-tank only wing, with built-in stabilizers (the little rows up the back, hoping to avoid using a STA). OMS and Apeks wings apparently have them; I don't recall them on the Dive Rite wing, and nothing I can find outline indicates the Zeagle wing has them. Ideally I'd prefer something extra sturdy (on general principles; I don't do hazardous penetrations, etc...). Dive Rite has a SuperFabric option, and Apeks PSD (public safety diver) version is more durable and sheds water better. The one thing that bothers me about the OMS wing is I only see 1,000 denier, no option for something more armored looking. It may not matter, but as long as I'm mulling over options... OMS wings get criticized for short inflator hoses, but if I'm having it replaced with one to connect my old Air2 anyway, maybe not a problem.
3.) Deluxe hardness - shoulder pads and quick disconnect. I like a strap across the sternum. There are a number of options; the OMS looks a bit colorful.
4.) Weight pouches - leaning toward Dive Rite. OMS has some; at least online, for reasons I can't recall, I got the impression the Dive Rite appealed to me more.
5.) Dive Gear Express's website had an article suggesting my best odds of tank stability without a STA might be the fit of having a wing and BP from the same manufacturer. Unless I go OMS for both, that's probably not going to happen.
So I'm trying to decide whether to order an OMS black AL BP, OMS Deluxe Harness, OMS single tank wing, then add maybe Dive Rite weight pouches & a trim pouch for a tank camband in case trim would benefit from some weight put there,
or
Either an OMS or Zeagle black BP, Apeks single tank wing but the PSD version (maybe $70 or so upcharge, more with tax, but a more durable build that sheds water better), somebody's Deluxe Harness (OMS? Dive Rite? Zeagle?), then weight pouches as before.
All with a Dive Rite thigh pouch that straps on.
The shop won't have all these options at the store. One of tbone's posts mentioned the OMS Soft Stabilizing Adapter, which for close to $20 adds tank stabilizer function to a wing that lacks that feature, but that means two more screws in the rig, that in theory may work themselves loose, etc... Built-in would be preferable, but this product shows another way.
Richard.
Someone on the thread suggested I look at Hollis (which I don't think the LDS carries); online I saw mixed reviews. I'm learning toward trying to get a gear configuration package I can get at the LDS, by way of thanks for their time and help, and so they can help assemble & fit it. Despite my hopes to avoid a 'Franken-rig,' it's looking like that may happen.
What I (think) I want:
1.) AL BP, but black or some other dark color. No 'naked metal' look. OMS and Zeagle have black AL BP; it looks like Apeks only has the naked metal (or near it) look, no black, etc...
2.) Single-tank only wing, with built-in stabilizers (the little rows up the back, hoping to avoid using a STA). OMS and Apeks wings apparently have them; I don't recall them on the Dive Rite wing, and nothing I can find outline indicates the Zeagle wing has them. Ideally I'd prefer something extra sturdy (on general principles; I don't do hazardous penetrations, etc...). Dive Rite has a SuperFabric option, and Apeks PSD (public safety diver) version is more durable and sheds water better. The one thing that bothers me about the OMS wing is I only see 1,000 denier, no option for something more armored looking. It may not matter, but as long as I'm mulling over options... OMS wings get criticized for short inflator hoses, but if I'm having it replaced with one to connect my old Air2 anyway, maybe not a problem.
3.) Deluxe hardness - shoulder pads and quick disconnect. I like a strap across the sternum. There are a number of options; the OMS looks a bit colorful.
4.) Weight pouches - leaning toward Dive Rite. OMS has some; at least online, for reasons I can't recall, I got the impression the Dive Rite appealed to me more.
5.) Dive Gear Express's website had an article suggesting my best odds of tank stability without a STA might be the fit of having a wing and BP from the same manufacturer. Unless I go OMS for both, that's probably not going to happen.
So I'm trying to decide whether to order an OMS black AL BP, OMS Deluxe Harness, OMS single tank wing, then add maybe Dive Rite weight pouches & a trim pouch for a tank camband in case trim would benefit from some weight put there,
or
Either an OMS or Zeagle black BP, Apeks single tank wing but the PSD version (maybe $70 or so upcharge, more with tax, but a more durable build that sheds water better), somebody's Deluxe Harness (OMS? Dive Rite? Zeagle?), then weight pouches as before.
All with a Dive Rite thigh pouch that straps on.
The shop won't have all these options at the store. One of tbone's posts mentioned the OMS Soft Stabilizing Adapter, which for close to $20 adds tank stabilizer function to a wing that lacks that feature, but that means two more screws in the rig, that in theory may work themselves loose, etc... Built-in would be preferable, but this product shows another way.
Richard.
Similar threads
